Episode 412

Data Driven Short-Term Rental Investing with Sief Khafagi

Sief Khafagi is an ex techie turned real estate investor who has helped thousands diversify into real estate after spending nearly 5 years at Facebook where he built the 2nd largest engineering organization across the world. 1000+ hires later, it hit him: a company’s most important asset is its people.

Today, he’s the founder of Techvestor, which helps real estate investors and busy professionals passively invest in the emerging asset class of short term rentals (aka Airbnbs) and build for their lifestyle. All investors get to use the properties they invest in, further creating utility AND returns. Techvestor’s advisors include folks from AirDNA, Realtor.com and Bigger Pockets.

But this isn’t your average real estate investment company. Techvestor built it’s own proprietary sourcing technology where they can underwrite over 50,000 properties a month and acquire the best ones for their investors. It’s as if a real estate company and a tech company had a baby.

Connect with Seif Khafagi at https://techvestor.com/

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"You can invest 10,000 hours and become an expert or learn from those who have already made that investment." - Jack

Transcript
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We want to understand where to buy.

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What neighborhoods with ZIP codes, what streets, what blocks were the comps during water?

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What's the price to rent ratio?

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Basically, gathering all this data to help us understand give this a viable market #1 is this a legal market?

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#2 right and I basically start transitioning.

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Down until it checks.

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All the boxes and like, we really like this market or maybe we don't pray and then fold.

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And then making the purchases there.

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Welcome to the REI mastermind.

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That work where a host to Jack has gathers amazing stories from leaders in real estate investing.

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In each episode, our guests will tell you what they're doing, that works, what they've tried, that failed, and best of all, you'll learn actionable steps to take your real estate investing to the next level.

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Now here's Jack.

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With another value packed episode.

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We have.

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See if the foggy on with tech visor com tech and I'm sorry it's tech Vester com. Again, it's techvestor.com and I'll make sure to have that link in the show notes.

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But see if I really appreciate your time here today.

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You have a very interesting platform that you have built here and if you're into short term rentals.

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This might be an option for you, but we don't typically spend a lot of time.

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On people backgrounds and how you got into this, but I'm always fascinated on that story, especially when you're building a platform from scratch.

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Steve started working at Facebook for about five years and now he's an entrepreneur launching his own product.

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So how did you go from Facebook to deciding to get into short term rentals for?

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As a niche.

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Yeah, I was.

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I was living the nomad life in tech, traveling between San Francisco or Los Angeles and some other parts.

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For quite a while.

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And between my co-founder and I, Sabrina, we she also comes from tech.

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She's X apple herself and we were finding ourselves having an interest in travel and being working remotely.

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This is all pre pandemic.

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And that we were like how do we do this at scale? How do we buy 568 properties and it was really hard for us to do that manually and can we come from these worlds of technology or you on Facebook Syrox campus and everything is automated or blessed with technology in some capacity and you off from the world of real estate, let alone short-term rentals and everything is.

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Or take in every single way and we were like, this sucks, so how do we make it better?

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And we built software for the world of short-term rentals to help serve ourselves on the acquisition side.

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We can underwrite over 60,000 properties a month using our software and what we realize is we add the parts of the business kind of solved on acquisition, design, operations and really revenue management.

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To drive really great numbers that a lot of people, a lot of our friends, coworkers from the past or like hey, this seems really interesting and COVID had just happened, it was going on right pandemic and you saw people want to get out and get out to these rural areas and travel and be more know about it.

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Obviously can see the debates have worked from home today and we just happen to be in the right place, right time and people.

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r. He launched in November of:

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OK.

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So, you said you how many properties can you underwrite at a time?

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We can underwrite 60,000 properties among today. So today we're underwriting over 260 different markets all across the country and we do all of that with technology.

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So, our team spent their time on 6% of properties that actually pencil for us, which is great, right?

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So that's a big part.

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Of real.

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Estate so where are?

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You are sourcing the data that's being fed into.

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To your platform.

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We have really.

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Great partnerships and advisors on our team, so for example or plugged into the mills on that front.

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We have great partnerships with companies like aired.

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One of our advisors, LASLOW used to be the SVP of analytics over at realtor com.

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And we have what we call key people in key places that can really add some value to us and what we're trying to accomplish.

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But really all we're doing is we're taking parts of the Internet all this.

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Data and really running it through an algorithm to help us directionally point us to better, more profitable properties in a faster way and a niche that is 99% mom and pop, right?

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Like, again, we're not competing with Blackstone here.

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We're competing with the person next.

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Door with do you mind sharing?

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What are some of the things that you would be looking at?

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Through your algorithm versus like a traditional rental.

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So, the first thing that our software does a very high-level surface is as soon as a property hits the market at the open market then we have it under in typically within about 30 seconds.

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And if that property meets a certain threshold, it shows up in what we call RFID.

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RFID is what we where we like to window shot, right?

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So, it's these are all properties that have already prevented algorithmically and statistically.

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Because we're pulling data from the open market, we're pulling data from air DNA filling mark, market data and columns and all these other things as well as from other resources and it's telling us say this property could.

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Realistically make a good short-term rental and so for us really great we look at it, our team spends their time on the properties, should pencil numerically and therefore we make it when we look at a property its better time spent.

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And so that's the first part on the high level of what we're doing and phase two where we're about today is we've been operating our live properties pretty well, generating about 42% more revenue and 52.

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Percent more occupancy year to date than our competitor.

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In our markets.

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So sometimes the most common question we get is how.

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How are you driving that type of performance?

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And so, for us it's all about data and there are no good data tools today on the market for short term rentals.

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So, we're building around right.

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We built our own basic operating system for running a good short-term rental and yes, we get the question all the time, will we ever release our software to the public?

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And that's something we may consider doing in the future.

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So, this isn't technically, at least at this point, a platform that I could sign up to and do some underwriting myself?

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Do you have some sort of syndication or a fund or how did people get involved or how does this how does your business model work?

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Yeah. So, you hit it right on the head. And so, we run a real safe fund syndicate and passive investors who are looking for passive income in this niche or alternative asset class can invest with us with as little as 25 grand.

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So, they signed up.

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They go through the process, they'll shout their investor Relations team, make sure it's it gets big.

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If their questions answered, go ahead and join.

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Or fund and then they become a shareholder and LP and all properties that we've acquired in that fund, we do all the work.

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We send you a check every quarter, right?

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In fact, on our websites as you invest and do the rest, right, it's our mini tagline and you're getting the advantage of everything done.

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For you and.

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Predominantly because short term rentals if you've never done them.

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Before even if you have, you'll.

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Know that it's a lot of work.

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To get from end to end and it's part hospitality or real estate or business part design and typically most people are looking for that.

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But short-term rentals have great yield, especially in a time like today when we're seeking great yield in our investments.

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So those are really advantageous and for.

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Us it's a.

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Big bet.

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We believe we can take single family.

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Homes buy them based on.

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Value generates great yield from those values and essentially sell them like you would sell commercial or multifamily property which is based on.

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Revenue. So that's our big.

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Bet over the next 5 to 10 years.

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OK.

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You mentioned you're in over 200 markets now.

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We underwrite over 200 markets, over 260 seventy markets, but we are only active actually in about 9.

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MO, we track this, Lee, right, because before we enter a market, we do what we call mapping. And so, if we have an interest in, say, Charleston, SC, before we even enter Charleston, SC will actually tell our software, start mapping Charleston, SC.

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We want to understand where to buy, what neighborhoods with ZIP codes, what streets, what blocks were the comps doing?

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What's the price to rent ratio? Basically, gathering all this data to help us understand, is this a viable market #1 is this a legal market?

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#2, right. And can basically start transitioning down until it checks all the boxes or like we really like this market or maybe we don't, right and they're full of continue making our purchases.

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So, as you're adding properties to a portfolio, I would imagine you'd have to have a certain amount of boots on the ground.

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How has that been going regarding managing these properties and the turnover?

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Yeah, Sabrina is incredible, right other provider and she runs our entire operational team.

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So, we have geographical teams all across the country that stand-up properties for us.

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We essentially white label anything that's physical infrastructure, so think cleaners, handymen, all that type of stuff.

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You know we outsource; we hire, we build those partnerships and relationships because we can't be in all these markets at once.

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Not possible now.

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Anything that can be handled remotely, guest communications design, those types of things we do all in house.

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Right.

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And that allows us to deliver the best experience to our end users and our guest center investors.

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While also giving us the scale.

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At which we can be in any market that we really choose to be in.

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And so, the terms and those types of things are really just about setting really proper infrastructure in place in these markets which we can set up in typically about a week or two once we enter that market or require.

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A property in that location.

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So, one of the things that I've been looking into some short-term rentals.

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Myself and it's the turnover that's always kills some of these opportunities like have you have found any tactics or strategies or is this something that's part of your software that to keep some of those expenses under control?

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Yeah, software, while it solves a lot of problems, I don't think it'll ever solve a human problem, and we know and understand that, right?

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So, we believe to person for us we are a real estate company powered and guided by technology.

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We are not a tech company that's global state.

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But I think that's a really important distinction because while we do have a platform of what we do, we are guided.

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By that technology and.

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When it comes to that turnover in that in the revenue management and the expenses, it's not perfect, right?

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We track a lot of data, so we know where money is being spent.

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And I think oftentimes that's the first thing that your typical operator is not doing.

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Most people don't know where the money is going and because you don't know where the money.

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Is going. You can't.

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Take action based on where that money has gone.

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So, for us, we can tell you how much money we spent on renovations compared to furniture, compared to landscaping, compared to utilities, electricity, everything broken down.

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And if we notice something is off, then that's something that we can go on to improve.

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In fact, we look at syndication, especially in short term rentals, very much like the bell curve.

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Right.

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You buy it, you acquire it, you launch it.

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And then those first three to 12.

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Months is all about stabilization.

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nd being like, wow, we spent $:

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Can we get that lower, right, how do we get that lower?

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And so, our team of six on the portfolio management side, we meet twice.

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We can go over these numbers to try to understand how we can improve and optimize it.

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Yes, as we all know a small increase in that noin is a huge value add when you go in, when you go exit this property based on cap.

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Right.

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Have you exited any of your properties yet?

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Or is that successfully done?

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So, we have.

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So, people ask us, have we?

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And why happily.

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So, we launched in November, and you'd be surprised to hear that we have 8 exits already.

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Under our belt and you'd be like, that's fast.

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That's not even a year end.

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And so, the reason we bought properties, step them up, design them first and renovated them, it's sold them based on cap is we wanted to prove a point.

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Wanted to prove that our business model could work.

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We wanted to test the theory, right this big bet that we said, hey, we can buy based on value and sell there.

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So, we project that we saw most of our properties between 6:00 and 8:00.

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Cap right is that range for this type of an asset class. The 8 exits that we've done so far have been between eight. I've been between a 5 1/2.

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Minutes 6 and out cap.

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So that's been incredible cap rate compression and success that we've seen super early and about a 38% weighted IR.

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Based on you take.

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In your on boarding a property you find 1.

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That meets your.

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Egg rhythmic hurdles and then you're under writers.

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What are some of the first things you do?

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What do you do to rehab and or what's that low hanging fruit that you've found is like your best bang for you?

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So, living spaces and kitchens oftentimes are huge value adds because when people are staying in an Airbnb, oftentimes it's the gathering areas that actually are why they're selecting an Airbnb over things like hotels and typical hospitality type segments, right. And so, the kitchen where you can get around the counter and cook.

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Talk and drink and have a good time and the game rooms or the big living rooms or these types of things, things that you typically don't see in traditional hotels.

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And then also for us, a lot of it is about amenities.

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For example, in Scottsdale, which is one of our markets, those backyards and Scottsdale that we have are completely decked out, right?

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There's putting greens, there's pools, there's cabanas, you feel like.

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You're away from home, right?

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It's experience versus, say, one of our cabins out in New York.

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Work is very rural, it's very rustic and authentic in terms of the experience we want to deliver there and has a beautiful hot tub underneath.

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The trees, right?

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So, it's just a different vibe that you're going for.

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And I think that's a big difference between Airbnb typical hospitality is you're selling the experience as much as you're selling the actual logic.

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Now, I suppose that's where you're under writers.

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Come into play, I can't imagine unless I'm mistaken.

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Your algorithm probably can't pick up the quality of gal gathering areas in a house.

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It doesn't at all.

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And that's.

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We've actually brought on a head of data; his name is John earlier this year.

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And John basically owns the qualitative side of this, right?

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So, the data directs us.

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To where we should.

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Be looking and then we qualitatively underwrite specific things.

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So, give you an idea in Scottsdale.

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Small things that the data suggests are relevant to successful properties or two different living rooms.

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Very qualitative metric and you would never have noticed that unless you really dive into the data pools.

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bedrooms by minimum can seem:

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Now take that and compare that to, say, the Poconos, which are down Pennsylvania, about an hour and a half away from New York.

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City design not as important.

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Amenities like hot tubs, grills, fire pits, very important in terms of what you can do there, 'cause it's an it's about a 2 1/2 season market where you have summers and winters and then probably lower than average occupancy throughout the rest of the year.

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And so those are the types of things that we look for and then one of the most surprising things that we figured out and did this because of our design arm.

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Beautiful big instagrammable murals cost 700 bucks. One of the best ROI investments you can do for your property, right?

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And so, we actually analyze and track trends that are on a qualitative level, see if we can track them to quantitative improvements, right?

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And then auto run on our renovation cyclically we're going to for every dollar we spend, we're going to get 140%.

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Back-end equity.

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So, breasts, we're very happy with that on the front end for our investors, right in.

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Terms of a risk reward, earlier you mentioned mapping out an area our new location.

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How much data do you?

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Collect on that area before you make the decision to move into that area.

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That's a good question.

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I think the better way for us to think about it would be how much time do we allow for data to collect 'cause.

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I think that's arguably been the biggest hurdle over the last year or two, right when you had to go back two years ago and there's no supply, nothing coming on the market really almost ever.

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It's hard to collect enough data.

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That's coming on market.

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And then you look at the last, say three months when you know a lot more has come on market, we can track and map that market better, right?

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And the reason we look at open merge data and not a pre-sold data or things that are off market is because those are not active opportunities for the level of scale that we're going at.

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And so, I would say typically we're looking for 90 days of data, but in a perfect world, we actually want 12 months of data.

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And the reason for that is because one of the big things with short term rentals is seasonality, right?

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And there are certain markets that we can identify that are better to purchase in certain months.

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In fact, we see price drops in certain.

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Seasons in certain markets because of XYZ reasons.

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Right.

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So, we're like, hey, we want to acquire in this market ideally in this time.

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Frame right or for example if we're going to buy in the.

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Poconos which is a.

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Heavy weather market, right, in terms of the dynamics of the weather that happened in that market, we can't just buy in October or November and say we're going to do a full gut renovation 60 days, it's unlikely that's going to.

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Right, because you're going to face snow and rain, other things that will go on there.

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So that type of data allows us a lot of decision making, right, when we think about where to go and how.

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To scale.

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So just reminder everybody we're talking to see if with Tech Vester com.

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So, head over to that and see if it might be a good fit for you when you're.

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Bringing on investors, do they have to be accredited or?

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How does that look?

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So, we only work with accredited investors directly.

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There are partners of ours that do work with us on a non-accredited basis, but we work with accredited exclusively.

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Just I just wanted to call that out so that people have an idea of what to expect there.

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How long have you been doing techvestor now?

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out of stealth in November of:

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Of companies, right?

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But how many Members on your team right now?

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nd our core OPS team is about:

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OK, it sounds like you are bootstrapping this are you?

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It sounds like you got quite a quite some backing, at least mentorship wise on.

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Our board, we do, we've great advisors and people like Rob over at biggerpockets, he's been fantastic.

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Michael Elefante who's big in the short-term rental space.

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Scott Shatford, who founded air DNA Laslow, who's previously had a product over at supper.

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Really fantastic people, we, we joked.

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With them when?

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We brought some sample of the model, but we knew we were a young company led by young leadership and we asked for white hair.

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On the team because.

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We knew.

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We didn't know we didn't.

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Know. And so, we've really.

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Had really great experience with them.

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We are not venture backed, we are fully bootstrapped and while we've had the offer several times to raise capital and take this into a venture backed throughout.

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For us were heavily focused on being incredibly cash flow positive and not going down that venture out today and I think so far, it's been a success.

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It just takes, especially when you're in a bootstrapped environment and you've built A-Team up to this level. How have you gone about recruiting and building such a strong team?

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I spent five years at Facebook in a town background and I didn't know it would prepare me for the world of entrepreneurship this way.

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and we took it to over:

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And what I learned in that process is that people in every possible business are arguably your most important asset that you can ever have.

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So, it was always important to us to have the best of the best talent and we had really no stomach to anything less than that.

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And so, for us we went out and we recruited specific short-term rental experts in.

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In space, take Taylor for example, who's our head of acquisition right, comes from a non-traditional background sales background, but has successfully ran and operated his own short-term rentals for several years successfully with incredible performance.

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John, who's our head of data.

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In fact, he's known as the Airbnb data guy.

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People go to him.

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Literally for them to analyze.

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There we were very lucky to be able to land him on our team and several other people on our team, including the likes of people like Skylar and Dylan on our operations team, every single purse.

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On our team runs their own short term rental portfolio. We drink the Kool-Aid ourselves and so that's a unique identifier tops and competitive advantage.

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And we really reached out to them and brought them on board and sold them on this vision of what we're building, which is the 1st and largest short term rental portfolio across the country in this format and that's a journey worth building.

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To all of us, that's especially.

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You know, when we're talking to real estate investors, the one of the things is that if you're going to be talking to a real estate investing guru or coach or mentor, the first things we ask them to ask if is.

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Or do you actually do this?

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Or are you just teaching it?

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You know that it's interesting to see somebody in your position who's actually hiring team members that are actually doing it on a regular basis?

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That's got to make a world of difference.

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Incredibly, in fact, we joke all the time.

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That we're running probably three to four different.

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Businesses and have 6 mini-CEOs.

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On our team and we trust each other to do our parts incredibly well.

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Between Sabrina and I, she runs everything operations and on right if I'm not going forward and I handle everything on the front end from capital in acquisition.

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So, I can do what I do without her, and she can't do.

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What I do without me and that's a.

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That's the trust that we have to happen.

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Those are completely different businesses because we're fully vertically integrated.

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For management to acquisition to design.

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We have to trust that the next domino will fall, and I think that's why it's really important for us to hire autonomous leaders who can go do those types of things and why we've chosen to stay as lean as we are today or the type of scale that we want to get.

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So, when it comes to the air and B&B world.

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You're relatively still.

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Young did you find it difficult to be positioned correctly or prominently within the Airbnb platform?

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What kind of steps did you do to stand out, so your listings got noticed?

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The first thing that we looked at.

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previously like all of us had:

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And the first opportunity by far was designed like we take a big approach to designing and renovating our assets so that they're.

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Instagramable that you want to stay there.

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They're aesthetically pleasing because Airbnb is a product.

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Airbnb is a tech company, and that's something that we understood incredibly well.

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In fact, Airbnb is very similar to Google.

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Things like ranking.

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All those things actually matter.

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And so, we track ranking right on our properties.

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We track keyword ranking; we track which photos do better.

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We track what do people care about in this market. We look at this zip code. In this market, 35% of properties that are performing in the 90th percentile and above have.

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A hot tub we have.

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Have data.

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I go back the data so eloquently here because it's the most important thing that we do that allows us to run and operate the levels that we do.

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And without that data we don't have direction.

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Everything is I guess because this is a non-institutionalized asset bus, it's not something that we can go and pull report on and.

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Be like, how was multifamily?

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Been doing the last 30 years.

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And look at trends that just doesn't exist.

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In fact, this.

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Has been one.

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Of our advisors brought this up in the concept that you know.

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This is like storage in the 90s.

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No one believed in storage in the 90s.

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They're like.

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Why would you need a place to store your?

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Stuff doesn't make sense.

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Then I joke around and I'm like, when there's this man named Jeff Bezos comes along with Amazon and says, you know, we can send everything over to your house in two days or less, and all of a sudden, you're buying a lot more stuff.

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You need more space, right?

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Houses have gotten bigger, even that hasn't accommodated.

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And so, for us, the data is everything.

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Data allows us to run better prices, better design, better operating.

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They're raised better everything that we do.

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Yeah, this is really interesting.

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See, if and I, you could tell, I probably could just continue to nerd out and we can go even deeper on some things.

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But just a reminder, everybody, again, tech vestar.com For more information about if you want to participate in what Chief and his team are doing it, it's there's a lot going on here, especially when it comes to.

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Data, you're absolutely right when you first started, when we first started off.

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We gotta face fact when it comes to real estate investors and Realtors for that.

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I don't know how many years behind everybody is when it comes to technology, but this is a very underserved area.

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And that's something.

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That we're hoping to address and our goal in the future is to dog food our own products, right?

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So, as we continue to perform well and hopefully that trend continues, we hope to help other operators in this niche as this niche becomes more traditional with better tools, right?

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And we operate at this intersection of real estate.

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Company and startup, right, Mini Venture and I think that's a really competitive advantage.

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That we see.

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If you're ready, I have a few rapid-fire questions to learn a little bit more about you.

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Let's do it.

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So here is your opportunity.

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You're in real estate investing now.

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What is 1 real estate investing myth you'd like to bust here today?

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That's a great one that you can do it alone.

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I see a lot of these people saying hey, just start, you can do everything by yourself and don't need a team until.

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Later, intense need to grow?

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That's ********.

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You need a team, and you need a team 10 times faster than you think you need it.

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And if you don't, you have no one to watch your blind side.

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Yeah, which there's a lot of blind.

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Sides, yeah. There's.

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A lot of blind sides.

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So, what book would you recommend to everybody checking out?

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One of my favorite books is actually a book called Super fans.

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And it's a book essentially about, it's about building products, but it's about understanding how to build it for your super fans that you're 10%, not necessarily your majority. And the reason I find this really valuable is we're in a.

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Rich, that we are investors or believers in this short-term rental space.

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There are believers in that this is a new niche, they're believers, and that this could be the next big thing.

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They're believers in this thing and we serve that specific niche and that these rich riches are in the niches is a very big thing that we follow and believe in it when it comes to investing and that's why we're so.

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Hyper focus, because our software we can apply it to long-term rentals tomorrow.

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It's very easy.

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It's slightly different underwriting, but we don't write everything that we do is exclusively focus on that and we serve the superfan of this niche.

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So, I'll have to check that.

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One out what's the best piece of business advice you've ever received?

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're ready. And I was probably:

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Doing everything from there and it got recruited into big tech and started building side businesses and products.

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The curiosity the earlier you start will continue to bug you and one day it'll work.

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Just keep being curious.

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OK.

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What is the biggest mistake business mistake you've made?

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So far and what did you learn from?

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Hiring and not firing fast enough, and as someone who comes from the talent space and as someone who leads a small team, you need to be able to let go of bad eggs on your team faster than you think because they will interact other and the smaller your team is, the higher the combustibility.

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OK, if you could go back in time and give yourself one piece of advice.

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What would it be?

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I think it would be to actually go faster like I think we've seen incredible growth over the last 10 months and things that we've done in general with software and the.

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Things that we've tested.

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But I think oftentimes.

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We've waited a little bit too long to try to deliver a more perfect solution.

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Then just go for it.

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See if this has been a great conversation.

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Is there a question or concept you wished we would have covered here today?

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I think the world of short-term rentals is so new and I think there's a lot of education around it, especially as an investor.

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Asset class, so perhaps another time, another episode, Jack, we can deep dive into short term rentals and their history and the data and we're super excited about it, but we're super stoked about it.

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ven in our deck we have about:

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That is all about the history of short-term rentals and just pure data on why we believe in this asset costs.

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Because the behavioral changes in the societies that we live in today support this asset class.

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Yeah, that would be interesting to go through some time one more time techvestor.com.

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Take a look at the web thief and his team have got going on.

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There's a lot of great information there. Again, it's tech vestar.com. Thank you, Steve. I hope you'll come back again like you. You offered. I'm going to take you up on that.

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Anytime, Jack.

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Thank you for having me.

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You've been fantastic and thank you for hosting a great conversation.

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You can find links to all of our social media accounts in the show notes. See you next time.