Episode 628

Avoid This $20K Mistake: SEO Secrets Revealed

Unlock the power of SEO for real estate investing! Jerryll Noorden reveals game-changing strategies to avoid costly mistakes and attract motivated sellers. Learn why traditional lead generation methods fall short and how to leverage search engine optimization for maximum ROI.

Key insights:

• The true meaning of motivation in real estate

• Why circumstance doesn't equal willingness to sell

• How to outperform competitors with personality-driven websites

• The 3 pillars of conversion: Competence, Personality, and Credibility


Connect with Jerryll Visit grumpyhare.com to discover how their innovative SEO solutions can transform your real estate business.


🏠 Real estate investing success starts with the right leads. Don't waste time and money on ineffective strategies. Learn how to attract motivated sellers who are ready to work with you!


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🔥 SPECIAL OFFER: Get 10% off Grumpy Hair's SEO services with code REIMASTERMIND. Visit grumpyhair.com to claim your discount!


Remember: "Focus on personality more than anything else. People will work with people they like." - Gerald Norden


#RealEstateInvesting #SEOSecrets #MotivatedSellers #InvestorSuccess


#seo #leadgeneration #keywordresearch #seolocal #googleadsforrealestate


CHAPTERS:

00:00 - Intro

00:26 - What is SEO

02:49 - Niches in SEO

09:38 - SEO Mistakes by Website Providers

17:04 - Time Investment for SEO

21:50 - Final Thoughts on SEO

27:20 - Key Takeaways

27:43 - Self-Reflection in SEO

28:37 - Advice to Your Younger Self

28:57 - Recommended Reading for SEO

29:18 - Time-Saving SEO Tools

30:00 - OUTRO - Thanks for Watching

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"You can invest 10,000 hours and become an expert or learn from those who have already made that investment." - Jack

Transcript
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Gerald Norton joins me and you could learn what his company is up

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to by going over to grumpy hair.

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com.

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That's grumpy hair.

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com.

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And, you can imagine this is going to be around search engine

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optimization and building that online presence, a grumpy hair.

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com.

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I really appreciate your time, Gerald.

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This is going to be a great conversation.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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pleasure to be here.

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So we're going to just kind of jump right in, Search engine optimization is kind of

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a buzzword and frankly as a real estate investor Doing this for a while now.

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I'm getting hit up a lot from kids on fiverr To everything else under the sun.

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Can you kind of explain a little bit what search engine optimization

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is and the importance of it when you have this online presence?

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Yeah.

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So we, as investors, what do we want?

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We want to find people that are willing to sell their house below market value, which

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is the definition of a motivated seller.

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when it comes to search engine optimization, it's pretty much how to

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rank your website number one on Google.

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What people don't understand is not just ranking your website number one on

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Google, but ranking your website number one on Google for the right people.

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People that are willing to sell their house below market value.

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That is the part that nobody literally gets.

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so what most people then do is trick and manipulate Google into

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thinking they should rank number one.

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Well, instead, Search Engine Machine is all about showing Google

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that your website provides the most value to Google's traffic.

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And their main principle about the entire ranking on Google is simply this.

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Imagine if Google always gives you something random when

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you do a search on Google.

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Every time you do a search, it's a completely random result.

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And on the other hand, imagine if you do a search on Yahoo.

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You get exactly what you're looking for.

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Which website do you think you will use?

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Google or Yahoo?

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Obviously Yahoo, right?

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If they get you what you want.

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So, what happens if everybody goes to Yahoo and nobody goes to Google?

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Google goes bankrupt.

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So you start to see what Google, and when I say Google, I'm

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talking about all search engines.

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You start to realize what Google truly is all about.

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Google is all about ranking the website number one that provides

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its users with the most value.

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So that is where you really need to focus on when you're talking about Google.

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SEO.

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It's not about the ranking.

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It's about the ranking for the right people.

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So as long as you can do that, you will actually have people that are willing

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to sell their house with a market value to specifically look for you, find

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you, and ask you to make them an offer.

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So the end result is, instead of us chasing leads, the leads literally

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chase us, if you do it correctly.

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And that is the whole premise of SEO.

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Yeah.

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I really appreciate you bringing that up.

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And one of those things that, you know, I happen to be reading a book right

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now, a hundred million dollar leads.

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I don't know if you've read that one.

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and he's talks about the riches in the niches, of course.

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we have this tendency of throwing a blanket into our market and hoping for the

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best when it comes to this type of thing.

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what you're suggesting is that we even have to niche down and become relevant

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and valuable In our markets for the terms and stuff we're searching for.

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Yeah.

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Think about what you just said today.

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Blanket.

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So what does everybody do?

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They buy up foreclosure lists, absentee only lists, probate

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lists, texting lists, right?

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That's what everybody does.

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And they think, okay, I have a set of, list of leads.

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I'm going to blank mail that, that audience and see what hits.

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You need to send between 3, 000 and 5, 000 mails to the foreclosure list,

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absent owner list, probate list, any list you can take off to get one deal.

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Okay?

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Think about it.

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Take 10 random people on your foreclosure list and ask them,

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Do you want to sell your house or do you want to keep your house?

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What do you think they're going to say?

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They want to keep my house.

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Ask ten random people on your texting list, ask them the same question.

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Do you want to sell your house or do you want to keep your house?

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They're going to say, I want to keep my house.

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Ask ten people on any list, ask them, do you want to sell your house

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or do you want to keep your house?

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They will all say, I want to keep my house.

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So, in other words, people are specifically and explicitly

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Targeting people that do not want to sell their house to try

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to make them sell their house.

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So that is all nice and thoughtful in theory, right?

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Let's look at data.

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You need to send between 5, 000, mailers to get one contract signed,

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that is a success rate of 0.

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03%, which means your failure rate is 99.

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97%.

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What that means Is 99.

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97 percent of the people that you are chasing are not

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interested in your message.

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then everybody sends mailers out and they are not successful with the 99.

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9 percent They are complaining to their favorite guru and they

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tell them, it's not working.

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What do you think the favorite guru will tell you?

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if you're not successful doing mailers, you didn't do enough.

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Do more.

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So now, here you are in a Fargo on the road.

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You go left.

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You chase foreclosures as they were some probates.

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You go right and you find people that are willing to subject market value.

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Everybody takes hard left and when they realize they make

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a mistake, they turn left.

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What do the experts tell you to fix it?

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Hit the gas pedal, go harder, go faster, do more.

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that is the whole premise of lead generation.

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the entire concept of getting a lead is all about Targeting the right

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audience with the right message.

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So if you need to target 3, 000 people with a message of are you in

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foreclosure to get a deal, obviously you're not targeting the right

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audience with the right message, right?

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So things need to change.

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And that is where SEO comes into play.

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The point here is you cannot target motivated sellers, can't.

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Here is why.

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No,

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Yeah, so here's why.

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Everybody thinks that a circumstance like foreclosure, as the owner

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approves it, implies Motivation.

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Everything is that.

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But that is wrong.

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Circumstance does not imply motivation.

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Motivation is an emotional response to a circumstance, not the circumstance itself.

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So now, check this out.

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Although the sensible solution to the circumstance of being in foreclosure

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is to sell your house, the emotional response, however, is to sell.

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It's trying to find ways to keep their house.

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So the emotional response and the circumstance, they do not

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fit the characteristic of a motivated seller of willingness

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to sell the hospital market value.

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So the moment people understand that, only then can you start

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to even begin looking for leads.

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Luck is a coin, a cost coin, 50 50.

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What are you doing when you send mailers outfit for closeness and all

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these blanket mail, mass mails, right?

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You have a 0.

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03 versus 99.

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97.

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That is not luck.

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That is suicide.

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Luck is 50 50.

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You would have better luck randomly closing your eyes, go to downtown

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somewhere and pick random people and ask them to sell their house.

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You will have more luck getting a yes, then actually targeting a list.

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That is comprised specifically of people that do not want to sell their house.

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So the reason why we are so successful is because we understand that

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concept, But those that can listen to data, they are the ones extremely

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successful and that's how it works.

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I think this is really interesting in the fact that you

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brought up the floor closure.

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we've had a notorious bad record.

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And I'm just going to be transparent here regarding dealing with people that are in.

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Pre foreclosure.

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and we've even asked them, well, if we have put you in a position that you're

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actually leaving with something in your pocket, why wouldn't you take this?

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And they, they're typically agreeable, but we have yet to get one of

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these properties under contract.

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In fact, more times than not, these properties People that are in pending

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for foreclosure, they have lost the property overselling to us.

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And the reason why it's because it's an emotional thing.

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It's not a logical thing.

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motivation is an emotional response to a logical concept.

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Right?

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Foreclosure is a logical concept.

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If you, if you, if you exhibit this and this and this characteristic,

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you are in foreclosure.

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It's a logical concept.

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But motivation is not a checklist to say, Oh, tall grass, boarded up windows,

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mirrors on the floor, foreclosure.

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Therefore, there's a higher chance of being motivated.

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No.

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emotion cannot be predicted.

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Two people in the same situation will act completely different.

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So there is no metric where you can target foreclosure.

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It doesn't make sense.

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And the sooner people realize that, the sooner they can actually

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do something about getting actual success, getting deals.

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Because that's what it's all about, right?

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Any business, any business can only operate if they find the right leads.

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And for our businesses, sadly, leads are very difficult because our

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leads are people that are willing to sell for pennies a dollar.

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That's very difficult.

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so it is very important that you really, really understand the concepts

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before you dive in and become an investor and expect to get deals.

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So, you know, one of those things that I think is interesting, and

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I'm going to eventually bring up the elephant in the room, which is carrot.

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We started a website here through carrot.

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and frankly, one thing leads to another.

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And now everybody in my market.

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Is using the exact same thing.

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let's say they've kind of followed the lead.

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Now ours isn't performing nearly as well as when we started.

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Can you talk a little bit about that and the amount of work that's actually

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needed on the investor side of things to make sure the site stays relevant?

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Yeah.

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So a lot of these website providers, they are, again, they

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are basing SEO and lead generation on the completely wrong concept.

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Lemme give you an example.

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The conversion.

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Now, if conversion happens, when you successfully can convey to your traffic

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through your website, who you are, what you are like, and what would be

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like to work with you, all of which needs to align with the perfect image

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idea of their ideal cash buyer to work with is, lemme give you an example.

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Don't you agree that when you do a Google search, you already

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know what you're looking for?

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So a motivated seller, they have in their mind already a set of ideal

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personality and character traits they're looking for in a cash buyer.

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Fair, honest, have a personality, good energy.

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And when they go to Google, they are actually skimming and skipping websites

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until they find one website they like.

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That matches that Tracer looking for, right?

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So only then will you get the conversion.

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But now, what is Scarlet?

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And, and, a lot of, all the, all the website providers, what, what

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are their basic SEO, strategies?

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The moment you land on a current job site, the first thing you will

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see is are you in foreclosure?

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Are you in job loss?

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Are you relocating?

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that was the basic template.

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So this is what I call topic based conversions.

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Wrong.

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Doesn't work.

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While we at Grumpy Hare, we do the conversion psychology

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of motivated sellers.

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that is our conversion principle.

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Let me tell you the difference.

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A topic based conversion is when you pretty much repeat The pain points of the

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seller and expect the seller to choose you because you repeated their pain points.

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Oh, are you foreclosure?

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Are you jobloss?

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Trust me.

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They know they're in foreclosure.

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You don't have to tell them that.

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Not because you repeat their problems will they automatically jump to you.

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But on the Grumpy Hair websites, the first thing you'll see when you land

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on it, It's a big picture of the person smiling with a very welcoming vibe and

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energy that instantly within the first two seconds of landing, they will know, Oh,

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I'm going to be dealing with that person.

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So they instantly know who they're working with.

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Obviously, that is what they want.

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if the other, providers, the topic based providers strategy worked, all

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you would have to do is say, Hey, I buy houses, I buy in, I help people

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with foreclosure, come with me.

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That would have worked, but obviously, a direct marketing

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piece would have worked then.

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But it doesn't.

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Do you know how many times after I do walkthroughs, and I see a stack of mailers

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on their counter, and they picked me, and I didn't send them a single mailer?

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If just mentioning their problems, or just mentioning you buy houses was

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enough, their marketing would have worked.

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The ranking number one would have worked, but it doesn't.

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Not because you're number one, it doesn't mean you're going to get leads.

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Not at all.

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You still need to make sure that what you present yourself to be fits

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what a motive seller is looking for.

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And once you can show these two fits.

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You will get a lead.

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Everybody thinks that just adding a picture is enough.

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No.

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The difference between telling people that you are amazing versus making

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people feel like you're amazing are two completely different animals.

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So while everybody is just telling them on the website with reviews and testimonials

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and all that stuff, you are pretty much telling them that you are credible.

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You are not making them feel like you are.

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the Grumpy Heart premise, that's why it outperforms Carrot and

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all the others by a landslide.

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It's because we need to focus on the conversion psychology of

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motivated sellers out of the box.

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So that's what we need to focus on, okay?

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whatever works that you have, character or otherwise, you can still salvage that.

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Just focus on the conversion psychology of motivated sellers.

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Don't focus on the pain points.

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I've developed the three pillars of a conversion.

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Competence, personality, and credibility.

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Okay?

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You need to show all three.

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Before you can even expect to get a lead.

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Now, I'm not going to dive into the details because it's a whole book.

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But here is what I am trying to tell you.

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A lot of people focus on credibility.

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They have no idea about personality strategies.

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And they have no idea about competence strategies.

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I wanted to just mention that focus on personality more than anything else.

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Here's why.

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People will work with people they like.

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If you are an amazing person to work with, people will try to find reasons

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and excuses to work with you, even if you're not an expert in the space.

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On the other hand, if you're a complete douchebag to work with,

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people will try to find reasons and excuses not to work with you, despite

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you being an expert in the space.

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Why am I telling you this?

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We get our deals accepted for way below market value because

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of our personality and character.

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So it's personality that makes people pick you while it is

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credibility and competence.

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that validate that they picked the right person.

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So that's why I say that is what you need to focus on the person behind

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the website, not the website itself.

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Okay.

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So that is the biggest difference between carrot and all the other platforms.

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And that is why I developed Grumpy Hare.

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We had to literally clean, I was on carrot too.

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And we had to literally clean everything on carrot, put in our

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own CSS coding to fix everything.

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And the funny thing is when we did that, they stopped offering support to us.

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While we made our students rank higher, they thanked us

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by removing support from us.

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So that's why we said, you know what, we're going to create

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our own Grumpy Hair website.

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And out of the box, we put in all the fixes that we implement on Tarot.

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We put all the bugs in there and People just switching over see

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pretty much overnight results.

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It's incredible.

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So yeah, we're very happy.

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Very proud of.

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Yeah.

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So one of the things that, we learned in, in any kind of sales train training

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is You know, that first connection is important in the personality counts,

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but more times than not, especially early on in our investing, we would

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lose out just because they liked us.

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Doesn't mean it's going to close the deal.

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And what I think is important is what you pointed out.

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It's the credibility and confidence that actually in the end.

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Helps with that piece of it.

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Yeah.

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it's credibility, personality, and competence.

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It's you to show the competence.

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It's not just confidence, but confidence is part of the competence equation.

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Yes,

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sure.

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So, one of those things that I would like to spend a little time

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with is regarding the amount of time that this type of activity.

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We'll consume because this is, this isn't an easy thing.

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so I just want to remind everybody again to head over to grumpy hair.

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com and learn a little bit more about this product and what we're talking about here.

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It's grumpy hair.

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com.

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That's going to be a clickable link in the show notes.

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If you found some value in what we're talking about so far, do

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us a quick favor, share this with one of your investor friends.

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And if you're watching us on YouTube, give us a quick like and subscribe.

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So Gerald, can you talk briefly about what people should expect?

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Cause real estate investing, when people get into this, I think we're

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sold a bill of goods that this is easy This isn't easy and it requires a lot

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of activity in order to stay relevant.

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What kind of work is needed here?

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Okay, so that's a bit of an old question.

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Let me answer it the best way I can.

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My website, personally, I haven't even touched my website in over four years.

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But that is just because the way SEO works.

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Google is not going to rank a website number one just because

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it's updated twice a day.

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Google's going to rank number one because it gives Google's traffic the most value.

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It doesn't matter if another asset is updated most of the day, right?

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but then I already have accumulated a lot of Google trust.

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And I'm already established.

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And people already know me and like me and they click on my website and get leads.

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So that is why I don't do anything anymore.

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But if you're brand new, you don't have reputation and Google doesn't know about

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you, you need to have your work cut out for you because you need to prove

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to Google That you are better than the other guy that's number one, right?

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But here is the thing that people don't really understand.

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When you are just brand new and you have a brand new website, you

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do not have to be better than the number one ranking website, right?

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If you rank number 99 on Google, you just need to be better than the

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guy that ranks number 98 on Google.

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That is how you start progressing.

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And the more value you provide to your users, and it could mean anything, it

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could mean content, it could mean website speed, anything that provides a good

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user experience on your website, you will start to outrank your competitors.

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Now, here is why it is quite easy if you do it right.

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What is 90 percent plus of your competitors doing?

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They are doing topic based conversions.

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They talk about foreclosure and as the owners, if you connect with your

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seller on a personal level through your website, you are providing far more

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value out of the box than most other websites you can climb very quickly.

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And then once you hit page one, that's where things get tough because

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now traffic actually sees you.

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And that's where you can start to get a lead.

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So now the more leads you get, which means the more value you have offered.

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You will start to rank.

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So, here is where a lot of the SEO experts go wrong.

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Everybody thinks it's all about backlinking and time on page and click

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through rate and balances and all these technical SEO aspects, right?

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It's not.

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SEO is all about showing to Google that you offer more value.

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That's all it is.

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So, how does Google know which website offers more value?

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That's the question.

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Backlink is the key.

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But it's a very, even Google will say focus on backlinks, but

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then again, Google's not going to give you their secret, right?

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So what we do is we don't focus on backlinks.

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We focus on conversions.

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Imagine you have two websites.

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One site is a really good website and the other one's a crappy website.

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Which do you think is going to get more leads?

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The website offers a lot of value, or the crappy website?

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The valuable one, obviously.

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the website that gets the most leads was the website that offered the most value.

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So Google, the way we reverse engineered the Google algorithm, what we came

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to find is, the better the website converts traffic into leads, the

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more value to Google, the website is providing, so you will rank number one.

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So, does it take time?

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Yes.

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If you're brand new, if you have no idea what websites, it takes time.

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But that is why, what we have done, out of the box, with the Grumpy

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Hat, for example, we have all these metrics, these personality

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metrics, included out of the box.

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So all you have to do is just swap the pictures.

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We have placed all the pictures of AI personalities.

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Everywhere on the website and all you have to do is swap them and then

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make the content of your original content that provides your traffic

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to see who you really are inside.

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If you can't do that, do not look at your rankings.

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just focus on the website and by the time you look up to see how

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your website is doing, you will be very high in the rankings.

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So that is a trick.

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Do not focus on the time it takes.

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Focus on how effectively you can portray who you really are.

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convey to your audience who you are and what kind of person you are.

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As long as you do that, it will be quite fast.

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Let's say somebody does decide to take advantage what you're offering here.

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And you said, no, don't, don't be concerned about how long it takes to rank,

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but could you kind of give an idea of how long it would take to become relevant?

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Yeah.

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so I can, I'm going to give you the previous results from our students.

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That can be a good indication.

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But the fine print is, it depends on your market, it depends on how well you

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do the work, and it depends on how your competition is doing their own SEO.

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But from our experience, we have one of our students, he's one of

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our record students actually, he got number one in three weeks.

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I think it took him three months to become a millionaire because he ranked

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number one, so it's quite impressive.

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But the average is around between one month to three months where you start

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to see yourself climbing on the first place to the number one spot on Google.

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But then again, it depends on your market.

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Again, oddly enough, miles He did in California.

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It's a very competitive market.

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Right.

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No, I appreciate you giving us that example because, it sounds

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like the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that

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a lot of the traffic and the ranking that we had received was probably driven by the

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other marketing and that we were doing.

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Because like, for example, we were sending out thousands of mailings

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a month and More times than not, all of that was pointing back to

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the website to drive traffic there.

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Keep this in mind.

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Do you know how many calls and farm fields we're getting?

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And when we go to the appointments and we ask them, how'd you find us?

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Do you know what a lot of people say?

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They will either say, Hey, I received your mailer.

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We don't send any mailers.

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So what most people sending mailers and calls and texts don't realize is, more

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than half of your marketing goes to the guy that is number one in your market.

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You may not never know about it, but a lot of your mailers end up

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becoming leads to somebody else.

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so my advice to you, if you send mailers, make sure, absolutely sure, you put a

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picture of yourself on the mailer and you say, if you want to know why and

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how we found you, check out the website.

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That way, even though they are going to do a research anyways, they at least

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find out who you are on your website, but that's a double edged sword, right?

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Because now you give them a way to get in touch with you and more than 90 percent of

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the people are not really happy with you.

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When you send mailers and calls and texts, so they can also yell at you.

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But at least you give them a way to really track you.

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Because our website is called Weebahouses in Connecticut.

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It's one of our websites.

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and most people in the mailer will say Weebahouses in city state, right?

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So they think we send the mailer and they will type Weebahouses in Connecticut.

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Or let's say an abandoned sign.

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What does your abandoned sign usually say?

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We buy houses, right?

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So, so they're going to do a search.

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People are not familiar with people that buy houses in cash.

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That's unheard of.

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You buy houses in cash?

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Who does that, right?

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For the average person, that's unheard of.

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So they will do a search.

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And what does the sign say?

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We buy houses.

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So they will do the, we buy houses search.

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And obviously we dominate Google.

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So they will find us.

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So people that put abandoned signs, they give us their best leads.

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Because it's the best leads to do a search on Google.

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They're, they're, they're interested.

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So just be, be mindful of that when you do that.

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So when you send mails, calls, whatever you do, always have a website

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ready to send them to your website.

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Always.

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Sure.

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what about those, that elderly population that actually just doesn't use Google?

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They, they're relying on the mail.

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Okay.

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So you'll be surprised how many of the elderly do use Google and

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there are always those that don't.

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And do you know how many calls we get from the sons and daughters of

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the elderly people that ask their sons and daughters for help selling

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their house and you get them?

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So, yes.

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SEO is not a magic pill.

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You don't get everybody, absolutely.

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But, I'm willing to bet, when you send mailers out, it's probably 0.

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03 percent of the people that are going to be interested in your offer.

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Only 0.

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03% Of the 3, 000 people that are also elderly are going to be interested.

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And then those have cell phones too.

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They have ways to go to Google.

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And only when they don't, the mail will be useful.

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That is a super tiny, tiny, tiny little fraction.

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Of what you're sending.

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So that small portion that we do not get, yes, we understand

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SEO is not a magic pill.

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But other than that, it's very, very effective.

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The only thing is it takes time.

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SEO has its drawbacks.

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It takes time to write, but that's why you should be using

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strategies that offers both, right?

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So get a credible website for sure.

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Then work on your SEO and while you work on your SEO, do paid marketing.

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Paid marketing gives you instant results, instant deals.

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And SU is a long term one.

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SU kicks in, you can stop the paid marketing, but you

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can make money immediately.

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That's what we recommend.

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Well, just to remind

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everybody one more time, head over to grumpyhair.

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com and learn more about how Gerald's team can help you with this.

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Again, it's grumpyhair.

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com.

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That's going to be a clickable link in the show notes.

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Before we jump into the rapid fire questions, Gerald, is there

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a question or concept you wish we would have covered here so far?

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think you asked all the questions that we get asked all the time.

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So I think that's very relevant.

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Well, I appreciate that.

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so if you're ready, we'll jump into the rapid fire questions

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and close out this episode.

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Awesome.

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Number one, what lie do real estate investors sometimes tell themselves?

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all about the numbers.

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Send more.

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If something doesn't work, okay, I'm a former NASA robotic scientist.

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Okay.

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so numbers and data is all I do when something doesn't work.

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Believe me, as a scientist, you don't do more.

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It's not about consistency.

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Consistency only works.

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If the strategy you're doing is correct, then yes.

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But if you have a success rate of 0.

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03%, your strategy is not correct.

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So it's not about consistency, it's about adaptation, adapt, learn, and tweak.

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It's a, feedback loop that you have to output what's back in the

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input and you tweak and you keep on progressing, keep on tweaking.

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That's how it really works.

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If you could go back in time and give your younger self one piece

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of advice, what would it be?

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Start now.

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Don't listen to anybody.

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Well, listen to people, but verify.

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But 100 percent start now.

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Every day you waste.

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It's a day you will not become successful.

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It's just start now.

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What book do you recommend

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And actually I am, I have been in the university for like, for like, I have

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no many years, 17 years university.

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I have read way too many books.

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I hate books.

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I write books now.

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I don't read any.

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I've heard though, that, rich, that poor, that's a good one.

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But I, I honestly, I don't read books.

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What single strategy process or tool have you implemented that

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has had the biggest time saving impact to you or your business?

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Hiring a team, believe it or not.

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So it might not be a tool, but, we reinvent the wheel all the time

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and we do a piss poor job at it.

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so what you really should do is get a system in place that is proven to work.

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We had to build our own systems because Everything we do is

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so hacked behind the scenes.

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the thing that helped us most is hire a team and put them in the

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right place as quickly as possible.

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That gives you free time to actually grow your business as a

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sort of making a business survive.

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Well, Gerald, this has been a fantastic conversation.

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I really appreciate your time.

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This was just really great.

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Again, it is grumpy hair.

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com.

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That's going to be clickable, but I hope you'll consider

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coming back again sometime.

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I would love to pick your brain.

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Regarding just starting a business like you have building that team

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and the mindset associated with it.

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You have my email address.

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I give you my phone number.

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Anytime you have a slot, Just let me know.

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And I'll jump on.

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I appreciate it.

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You're welcome, Jack.

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Real Estate Investing with the REI Mastermind Network

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About your host

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Jack Hoss

We gather amazing stories from leaders in Real Estate Investing. In each episode, our guests will tell you what they are doing that works, what they tried that failed, and best of all you'll learn actionable steps to take your real estate investing to the next level.