REI Mastermind Network | Real Estate Investing Strategies & Mindset
The Complete Starters Guide to Wholesaling Real Estate (Part 1) with Todd Toback #232
May 9, 2021
Todd Toback is the creator of the #1 Single Family Acquisition Training in the country, The No Limits Sales System. This training focuses on the 3 Pillars of making it BIG: acquiring property directly from sellers while learning the mindset, skills, and habits to make it happen. He has trained solopreneurs and large teams to double and then double profits again just by making a few small tweaks. He is an expert in teaching others the art of talking to motivated sellers. REIMastermind.net
Todd Toback has 19 years of real estate experience specializing in acquiring real estate assets below market value. He has flipped over 1000+ Single Family residences, duplexes, triplexes, and other types of property. During his tenure as a real estate investor, he has held a small portfolio of single-family homes, multi-units, mobile home parks, and has extensive experience in lease negotiation.

Todd is the creator of the #1 Single Family Acquisition Training in the country, The No Limits Sales System. This training focuses on the 3 Pillars of making it BIG: acquiring property directly from sellers while learning the mindset, skills, and habits to make it happen. He has trained solopreneurs and large teams to double and then double profits again just by making a few small tweaks. He is an expert in teaching others the art of talking to motivated sellers.

Also, he is the Pioneer of the coaching program, Next Level Wholesaling, teaching solopreneurs how to break free of the bondage of “the one-man show”. He trains other entrepreneurs how to build highly effective teams that produce revenue, how to purchase income-producing real estate, and how to build long-term wealth while drastically decreasing their working hours. After spending a short time with Todd’s training, you won’t ever want to do business the old way again. His passion lies in seeing other people grow, changing the way they play the game and ultimately, their lives forever.

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"You can invest 10,000 hours and become an expert or learn from those who have already made that investment." - JD

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Transcript 
00:00:01 JD 
OK, I've been looking forward to this conversation for a while. As soon as your broadcast bookers reached out to me and asked for you to be on the show and I went, heck yeah, Todd Toback is on the call, and Todd, I really appreciate your time. And if you haven't heard of Todd, you're likely. 
00:00:21 JD 
Living under a rock because I can't say enough about Todd and some of the advice he's given on some of the podcasts I've caught him on. 
00:00:28 JD 
And thankfully enough, you can now hit him up on his own podcast. It's called no limits. Real Estate Investing podcast. Make sure you find that podcast. Subscribe to it because. 
00:00:42 JD 
Anytime I've heard you on another show, Todd, I've always come away with another piece or nugget that I I try to incorporate into what we do. 
00:00:53 JD 
But Todd has been in real estate for 19 years. I think you've done over 1000 transactions. I mean this. You have the experience and. 
00:01:02 JD 
Really appreciate you giving me the time today. 
00:01:04 
Yeah. 
00:01:05 Todd Toback 
Well, I'm excited to be here and, uh, if you're listening to this, we're going to give as much as we can to you. 
00:01:11 Todd Toback 
So let's get ready to. 
00:01:12 JD 
Rock so you know we I talked when we before we hit record I talked to that said that there's a lot of people that listen to my show that are relatively new to real estate investing and. 
00:01:25 JD 
Obviously, the first thing that comes to mind is that they're going to do some wholesaling. 
00:01:31 JD 
And I really kind of wanted your perspective. And now that you've been doing this for as long as you have like, what are some of those things that people need to get their mind right off the bat? 
00:01:46 Todd Toback 
Well now after 19 years you know it's funny every time you think you know at all you realize you know nothing. 
00:01:53 Todd Toback 
I think one of the things that I've realized is that you have to be in this to play the long game and you have to be in this to play this. 
00:02:00 Todd Toback 
Working right so you want to take a look at where you are on your journey. So if you're just getting started and you don't have a lot of money in the bank, and let's say you're not a high-income earner, I think wholesaling is a phenomenal place to be. 
00:02:12 Todd Toback 
If you are a high-income earner and let's say you're earning 150 to $200,000 a year, perhaps you shouldn't get distracted with wholesaling and you should start buying income-producing properties right away. But since you asked me about the wholesaling and specifically. 
00:02:29 Todd Toback 
Uh, the number one thing about wholesaling is that wholesaling is more to do about marketing than real estate, right? 
00:02:37 Todd Toback 
So if you're out there, you know this is all about generating leads. It's all about closing those leads and selling them for maximum profit. 
00:02:44 Todd Toback 
That's it, you know it's not about being a property expert. It's not about, you know, understanding neighborhoods perfectly. 
00:02:49 Todd Toback 
We're trying to go and meet with someone who has a. 
00:02:51 Todd Toback 
The problem you're trying to lock up that property for as low as humanly possible. You're trying to control that and then sell that for a maximum purchase price. 
00:02:58 Todd Toback 
And if you get away from that right if you try to overcomplicate this with a ton of tools and you know all these ninja tricks and you know I've got to hit this market to go virtually or non virtually, it's like don't do it right. 
00:03:11 Todd Toback 
It's like the people who make the most amount of money we can get into specifics here. In a moment, the people who make the most amount of money in this business do not overcomplicate this. They understand that their most important job is to generate leads. 
00:03:24 
Yeah. 
00:03:25 Todd Toback 
Then it is to close those leads and then to sell them for maximum profit and that's it. And in that order right? In that order right? The other part about this is that. 
00:03:38 Todd Toback 
I don't care where you're at. If you, if you've got negative $100 in your bank account right now, or you've got 5000 or $10,000, you can do a deal, right? 
00:03:46 Todd Toback 
You can be extremely resourceful. You can use your own cash. You can use credit card cash. You can partner with other people to fund your business. I don't care where you're at today. OK? We are going to help you do your first. 
00:03:58 Todd Toback 
Or next wholesale deal on that show on the ship. But I listen to the show if that's OK. 
00:04:03 Todd Toback 
With you. 
00:04:04 JD 
Yeah, yeah, that'd be awesome. 
00:04:07 JD 
So let's start from the beginning. Then what you know you said to find that deal like. 
00:04:12 JD 
I think what a lot of people especially. 
00:04:16 JD 
You know, especially here, getting it into the first time, it's almost become romanticized as if it's quick, get rich, quick scheme of some kind. This concept of holds sailing. 
00:04:26 JD 
And there's a lot more work involved than that. It wouldn't, you say. 
00:04:30 Todd Toback 
Well, just like any other business, I mean the one thing that I've realized is that you know if you get into any kind of business. 
00:04:38 Todd Toback 
It's all about generating leads and closing those leads and and and exiting right? But wholesaling is fun because it's a high price point and you can generate a larger one. 
00:04:47 Todd Toback 
And so hey, this is work, but if you're going to work and you're going to do this, you might as well do it with a piece of real estate, right? 
00:04:54 Todd Toback 
And so you're going to have to get out there and work and grind if you don't have any money. 
00:04:59 Todd Toback 
If you have money then you may. You can use some of that money to buy your way out of the hustle. 
00:05:06 JD 
Right, right? 
00:05:07 Todd Toback 
Right, but there's certainly work involved, but you know you have to generate leads. That's the key in this business. 
00:05:13 Todd Toback 
So if you're gonna, if you're totally broke and you want to knock door to door, or if you want to get out there and khokhol. 
00:05:18 Todd Toback 
Or if you want to go out there and send a text out to people, and if you're brand new, those are all ways that you can reach to reach out to people who have a property for sale, right? 
00:05:30 
Huh? 
00:05:31 Todd Toback 
So you're going to have to generate those leads. You're going to have to pick up the phone and talk to people, and you're going to have to screen. 
00:05:38 Todd Toback 
People and help someone who has a problem. So sometimes I'll get an email and say, Todd. How can I make this seller do a deal with me? 
00:05:45 Todd Toback 
How can I make this seller sell a property to me for below market value? Well, I can tell you we've done probably over 1200 transactions now. 
00:05:52 Todd Toback 
We've never dragged the seller over the finish line, right? We never bought a house from somebody who didn't want to sell. 
00:05:59 Todd Toback 
Right, we never bought a house from someone who didn't have a problem for us to solve, and so at the end of the day, it's all about marketing to those people and creating opportunities and then getting them over the finish line. 
00:06:11 JD 
You know that that's there's been a couple of things already that I need to point out. One of the things is that you started things off by saying let's not overcomplicate things early on, talking about all the tools and stuff. 
00:06:24 JD 
And I've run into quite a few people who do exactly that. They get, it's part of their analysis. 
00:06:31 JD 
Paralysis if you will. They feel like they gotta get all these processes and tools and everything in place. They gotta spend hours setting up Podio or what have you. But in the end. 
00:06:45 JD 
You're focusing far more on the activity and the actions that are going to generate. 
00:06:51 JD 
Any kind of leads, right? 
00:06:54 Todd Toback 
I mean, the more time you spend on your computer, the less money you'll make. 
00:06:57 
Yeah. 
00:06:57 Todd Toback 
Right, you know it's funny. I watched my dad growing up and he had these telemarketing rooms and he's like oh they used to call the computer idiot boxes. 
00:07:06 Todd Toback 
And look, I mean, we've never been more powerful, but we've also never had the opportunity to be more distracting. 
00:07:12 Todd Toback 
Yeah, so I remember one of my mentors before they actually had CRM's. I mean it's funny. I used to be the young guy in this business, right? 
00:07:19 Todd Toback 
But I used to have 30 folders and those 30 folders represented every day of the month, right? And don't get all complicated like. 
00:07:26 Todd Toback 
What about February? Or what about the month with 31? 
00:07:29 Todd Toback 
Days in it right? I had 30 folders and if I wanted to follow up with someone. 
00:07:33 Todd Toback 
And it was the first I'd put it in the 15th folder. It was the 30th I used to put it in the 30th folder and these are the leads that I used to talk to. 
00:07:38 Todd Toback 
And on the day of the month, I used to pull out the folder and call somebody on the lead sheet and that was just as effective as all of these tools every day. And so if you're wondering what CRM you should use. 
00:07:50 Todd Toback 
And or you don't have the money or you're not tech. Go get 30 Manila folders right one through 30. 
00:07:55 Todd Toback 
OK, start calling people who have a piece of paper that you don't have the seller's information on. OK, write it down and start calling. I mean if that if that's you you have no excuse. 
00:08:06 Todd Toback 
You know that the. 
00:08:07 Todd Toback 
The tools can certainly distract you and people ask me what my favorite CRM is. There's a lot of them that I would recommend, but the most important thing is the one that you're going to use. 
00:08:19 JD 
Right? 
00:08:20 JD 
Right? 
00:08:21 JD 
No, that's awesome. And I've heard of somebody else using a similar tactic, and that's extremely effective. I mean, as you said, if there's no money involved, going down to the basic level of using folders, I mean, that's ingenious. 
00:08:36 JD 
So you said you never you've never dragged a customer. 
00:08:42 JD 
Or someone over the finish line. 
00:08:45 JD 
That is one that leads me into some of the very unique ways in which you seem to talk to some of those sellers. 
00:08:53 JD 
I think I think there's a lot of emphasis on convincing people to do something, but in the end, I really would like to spend some serious time talking about how. 
00:09:04 JD 
You feel we need to be talking to these sellers. It almost seems like we're in some. 
00:09:11 JD 
We're in sales. Of course, we're in marketing, of course, but we're not in the game of convincing people of something. 
00:09:19 
Uh-huh 
00:09:22 Todd Toback 
So it's interesting, so I'm gonna tell a quick story. And about four or five years into the business, I realized I couldn't do this by myself, so I hired a guy through a family friend. 
00:09:33 Todd Toback 
I didn't know anything about hiring or who to hire or how to hire, but he was a family friend and a friend of my friend, brother-in-law, and his name. 
00:09:42 Todd Toback 
Brian and he came to my office and I said, OK, Brian, you know, here's the telephone. Here are the leads. Just get on the phone and close the deal. 
00:09:51 Todd Toback 
And Brian was a man. He was bad. I mean he was bad. I heard him. He was trying to convince Sellers he couldn't get 2 words out of his mouth. 
00:10:00 Todd Toback 
He was begging and chasing, and these sellers were just running in the other direction, right? Just like you know, your puppy runs out the door. Your dog runs out the door, you start chasing and it runs down the block. 
00:10:11 Todd Toback 
And I'm thinking after six weeks this isn't going to work. 
00:10:16 Todd Toback 
Right, I'm just like man you. 
00:10:18 Todd Toback 
Know this hiring thing, uh? 
00:10:20 Todd Toback 
And I had a mentor and he's like Todd, you know. Obviously, you had a mentor, right? I, I didn't know anything about sales. 
00:10:27 Todd Toback 
I, I'm actually naturally, really introverted, but I had a mentor teach me, and his name was Derek and he guided me through how to talk to people actually selling Viagra. If you can believe that. 
00:10:40 Todd Toback 
Oh 
00:10:40 JD 
Yeah, I had seen that in your bio that you used to sell Viagra before real estate. 
00:10:46 Todd Toback 
Yes, and so he taught me how to talk to doctors to get them to basically ask their patients. 
00:10:55 Todd Toback 
If they were struggling with any kind of erectile dysfunction right? It was an interesting sale, right? 'cause you think that would be really, really easy. 
00:11:02 Todd Toback 
But really, doctors were uncomfortable talking about it with you, and they were also uncomfortable talking about it with their patients. 
00:11:07 Todd Toback 
So that was really is a great great job. I had a mentor, taught me a lot and it really helped prepare me for real estate. But going back to. 
00:11:16 Todd Toback 
Uh, you know, Brian, you know my mentor said to me, hey Tom, listen, you gotta get out. What looks out of your head right and into some kind of repeatable system? 
00:11:26 Todd Toback 
Right, and so we took it, and I mapped it out and I wrote it down. I said, hey, there are some basic things that we do right to basically flush out the motivated people from the non-motivated people. 
00:11:36 Todd Toback 
And actually, this is the basis for my no-limit selling system. I talk a lot about it on my podcast and you can check more about that on my website, but one of the things that we talked about when. 
00:11:47 Todd Toback 
You know Brian was there. As I said, look, you know we're not trying to convince anybody we're not trying to get anyone to do anything they don't want to do, but it's very. 
00:11:54 Todd Toback 
Or that you find the people who have some kind of problem or a situation that they need help with and that you put them in one bucket and then you take the people with who you have no chance of doing business and you move them out of your life, right? 
00:12:09 Todd Toback 
We're not going to beg those people. We're not going to talk to those people, and you're also going to keep your chest out. 
00:12:14 Todd Toback 
And you're going to be proud of what you do so that you like talking to people so that you're not begging for their business from the motivated and unmotivated. And so we started to do that. 
00:12:24 Todd Toback 
And, uh, so I started coaching blind and basically Long story short, after three weeks of doing this, Brian got his first deal, right? 
00:12:32 Todd Toback 
It was like $42,000, right? A couple of weeks later, got another one, another one, another one, another one, and Brian went on to make me millions of dollars, right? And I can tell you that creating that system both inside and outside. 
00:12:43 Todd Toback 
Organizations were one of the best things. 
00:12:46 Todd Toback 
That we've ever done now getting back to, you know, finding the motivated and unmotivated one of the things that we use is a technique called the Stella. 
00:12:56 Todd Toback 
And by the way, if I go off course or too deep let me know here in a second. 
00:12:59 JD 
Yeah, no, you're good, you're good. 
00:13:01 Todd Toback 
But one of the things that we use a big is its part of the five communication techniques, and one of those is called the stealth mismatch. 
00:13:09 Todd Toback 
OK stealth mismatch. So when you talk to a seller or let's say you're at a car lot OK, pretend you're at a car lot and you're there and you are actually looking for a car and the salesman walks up to you, right? What do you naturally do? 
00:13:24 JD 
You say I'm just looking. 
00:13:27 Todd Toback 
Why? 
00:13:29 JD 
Because I don't want to feel the pressure. 
00:13:32 Todd Toback 
But what are you doing at a car lot? 
00:13:35 JD 
Exactly, yeah no. I get your point. 
00:13:36 
Right? 
00:13:38 Todd Toback 
You're looking here so The thing is, is that no matter what, you know, no matter how motivated someone is, there's a portion of people who are going to say, I, I don't mean to sell, I'm not desperate. 
00:13:48 Todd Toback 
You know they're not going to tell you the truth because it's just a defective defense mechanism. We can make fun of those people all day long, but we all do it right. And frankly, when people get a postcard or a text in the mail. 
00:13:53 JD 
Huh? 
00:13:56 Todd Toback 
Well, they're not dumb. They know what we do. They know that what we buy and we've never pulled the wool over anyone's eyes and try to convince them their property is worth more than it is. 
00:14:05 Todd Toback 
And that's the fun part about this business is. I love hitting people between the eyes with honesty. You may not like me, but you respect me, right? You may not. You may hate my offer. 
00:14:14 
Uh-huh 
00:14:16 Todd Toback 
And you don't want to take it, but you trust me. 
00:14:19 JD 
Right? 
00:14:19 Todd Toback 
Right, and so that's what I always tell the people. So your job is not to please people to get them to trust you, right? And they're going to like you so. 
00:14:27 JD 
No. 
00:14:28 Todd Toback 
Long story short, I said whenever you go to a seller and say hey listen, it sounds like you need to sell fast so it sounds like you're in a jam or it sounds like your son who's been living in the property for five years. 
00:14:37 Todd Toback 
Rent-free, it sounds like you want to get him out. It's just like going to a car. Sales going to a car lot. They're going to automatically retreat from you, so your job is to get in there and. 
00:14:48 Todd Toback 
Dig in and find that truth. 
00:14:49 
Huh? 
00:14:50 Todd Toback 
Right, and so they call it the stealth mismatch because you're. It's stealthy, right? But you're also saying the opposite of what the seller is saying. 
00:14:56 Todd Toback 
So for example, one of our favorite kind of properties is when a stellar is living in a house rent-free and you know the mom or the sister of the aunt the grandfather owns it. 
00:15:06 Todd Toback 
Right, and so we'll go out and go. Hey look, you know you've been really it sounds like you're a really generous person. 
00:15:12 Todd Toback 
It sounds like you know you might be just better off keeping your son in there. You know. I mean, you know you've done it for six months. 
00:15:18 Todd Toback 
Why not just keep him in there and keep? 
00:15:21 Todd Toback 
Being you know, a great grandmother, right? And then all of a sudden you go that way. 
00:15:26 Todd Toback 
Even though I want to buy the house and I think he should be out, that's when they unload. They said there's no way he's gonna stay in the house like that, *** 
00:15:35 Todd Toback 
Boom, you know? 
00:15:37 Todd Toback 
Right, and that's when you can start to dig this out, so that's one of my favorite techniques. So if I if someone says they're not in a rush, I say a great, good thing. 
00:15:44 Todd Toback 
Because, you know, you can hold on to this property for the next six months, fix it up and get top dollar and just wait for the market to turn around or go up. 
00:15:53 Todd Toback 
And I'm going to try to flush that out. Does it work every time? No, but it works a lot at that time, and so we're always using the stealth mismatch there. We're training our acquisition specialist to do that, by the way. 
00:15:53 
Umm? 
00:16:05 Todd Toback 
When you use this when you have a system. 
00:16:07 Todd Toback 
If you're brand new, when you've got a system of talking to people and your practice and your role play and you know your posture and how you're going to communicate, your confidence goes through the roof. 
00:16:20 Todd Toback 
Goes through the roof. 
00:16:22 JD 
You know, that's something that's always been. You know, I, I've been in sales roles throughout my career and that's always something that I found that I've always I just hated going through those role-playing that that that training. But in hindsight, I can't agree with you more about doing it. 
00:16:43 JD 
Definitely has a positive impact. 
00:16:47 Todd Toback 
You know it's funny about the role-playing. 
00:16:49 Todd Toback 
'cause I don't think anyone likes it. People think they're better than they are. I mean, I even think I'm better than I am sometimes, right? 
00:16:54 Todd Toback 
And so sometimes with acquisition specialists will get them in front of somebody. And they're like, I know, the system, and I'm like, OK, well, let's role play and all of a sudden we do it and it's like, oh, man, we we. 
00:17:04 Todd Toback 
Did some work right? 
00:17:05 Todd Toback 
And so this is a if you're in the wholesaling business. 
00:17:10 Todd Toback 
You're in the business of sales, right? You are in the business of communicating with people. This is your craft. 
00:17:16 Todd Toback 
You know, let's not pretend like you're a real estate expert if you're wholesaling, and that's OK, you can make a lot of money, but this is a communication of business. 
00:17:24 Todd Toback 
You generate leads, you close them 'cause to me, generating leads is actually the easy part. The second part is communication which is your craft, right? 
00:17:32 Todd Toback 
And that's why you know I'm so hot on that. That's what I talk a lot about on the podcast. 
00:17:32 
Range. 
00:17:36 Todd Toback 
They created the system and you know, I'm if you focus on this, you're going to be able to use it in an area or any area of real estate, right? You can. 
00:17:46 Todd Toback 
Use it for wholesaling adjoining quick cash, but when it's time for you to get those cash flowing properties, or you're going to hire employees, or you're going to recruit people, or you're going to build a business, this communication stuff is. 
00:17:56 Todd Toback 
Really, really, really going to help. 
00:17:59 JD 
You know what's funny is that once you get used to it because the way I do things is very similar to what you're talking about there. 
00:18:07 JD 
When I'm talking to sellers, but I find that I start using it in other situations too or especially when I was early on. 
00:18:16 JD 
I would, uh, I would role-play if you will in other sales scenarios where somebody was trying to sell me something and I would start to try to change the conversation. 
00:18:27 JD 
So this was like a year or two ago. I was looking at a car for example and we were driving and I was starting to ask. 
00:18:34 JD 
The questions of the dealer like how to try to get an understanding of how important it was for him to sell the car, what by the end of our little test drive. 
00:18:46 JD 
I knew how he was incentivized, how he was, how, how important that particular sale was going to be to him. 
00:18:56 JD 
And it was allowing him to talk himself into giving it to me at a lower cost. 
00:19:02 Todd Toback 
I mean that is phenomenal, right? And if you're gonna, by the way, joust with a car dealer? 
00:19:08 Todd Toback 
Uh, car salesperson. Just know that you are a good chance you're going into the arena with someone who's superior to you, right? You know the the the. 
00:19:16 JD 
Yeah, absolutely. And I thought it was a good test. Like a good test run. 
00:19:19 Todd Toback 
Oh phenomenal, I? I mean I, I just love that. I mean, you're going to the arena because, you know, wholesaling is not that mature of industry, right? I mean, these auto dealers they are. I think that's great. 
00:19:31 Todd Toback 
A place to practice them? 
00:19:34 Todd Toback 
You know, yeah. 
00:19:35 Todd Toback 
That's phenomenal, I think one other place to practice too, just to gain your confidence in this is going where you really don't care. 
00:19:41 Todd Toback 
So for me my kids, they love to buy stuffed animals, right? I mean there are those like stuffed animals maniacs. And then my daughter. She collects his little toys called Littlest Pet Shops. 
00:19:51 Todd Toback 
Uhm? 
00:19:51 JD 
Sure. 
00:19:52 Todd Toback 
Do you know what those are? 
00:19:53 JD 
By the way, yeah, well, my my my kids are like climbing into teenagers now, but my daughter used to. 
00:19:59 Todd Toback 
Yes. 
00:20:01 JD 
Collect those things too. 
00:20:02 Todd Toback 
Yeah, so she's into them so I said so she goes to garage sales to find them. But I said hey, you know when you go to the garage, and if you're an adult we almost practicing and always having them practice their negotiation skills right? 
00:20:15 Todd Toback 
And I say, hey look, if you guys negotiate at the garage sale here, I'll give you 10 minutes of extra screen time on the iPad or whatever that is. 
00:20:22 Todd Toback 
But when you go someplace where you don't care where you have nothing on the line, so for me, you know sometimes I'll do it when I'm with them. 
00:20:29 Todd Toback 
Right, it's a good way to kind of play loose right where you're not tired or worried about losing a deal or worried about losing the car where you can just practice an environment where there are no pressures. 
00:20:38 Todd Toback 
So I highly recommend doing something like that if you want to go to a car lot right when you're not looking to buy a car so you can practice or garage sale, but it's all about getting in those reps, right? Repetition is the mother of skill. 
00:20:49 Todd Toback 
Yeah. 
00:20:50 JD 
Yeah, no that's awesome, and what I really like and what I really want to point out to people is that concept that we're not convincing anybody of anything. They're coming to you. 
00:21:03 JD 
Because they know what you do already first of all and dumb. 
00:21:08 JD 
It's almost I almost at this point find it entertaining because when I talk. 
00:21:13 JD 
To other wholesalers. 
00:21:16 JD 
Uhm, the concept of even mentioning alternatives to the seller is beyond them. Like one of the questions that I've learned to ask is this sounds like a great property. Why don't you list it with a realtor? 
00:21:22 Todd Toback 
OK. 
00:21:29 
Yeah. 
00:21:30 JD 
As if they've never thought of that before. Like people, people are afraid to use a realtor in any kind of sales pitch, but I typically find that far more revealing and far more of a way to find their pain point than any other question I asked. 
00:21:47 Todd Toback 
Oh, completely. I mean that is so awesome, right? I mean that that you understand that I could tell you that you can never really kill a deal, right? And when you say listing with a realtor, sometimes you're shocked that you would say that. 
00:21:59 Todd Toback 
Right, but they're thinking it as I said before, I've never. I've never bought a house from someone who thought it was worth a ton more than it was. 
00:22:06 Todd Toback 
I'm sorry, we thought it was worth a ton less than I that. I bought it for. 
00:22:10 Todd Toback 
Right, and so when you start to pound these out, the number one killer of a new real estate investor is them spending time with unmotivated sellers trying to like to mask themselves. 
00:22:19 Todd Toback 
So sometimes you'll have newbies like pretend like they're going to live in the property, but pretend like they're going to fix and flip it, you know, or they're going to pretend like you know they're going to, you know, sell it to their brother and sister. 
00:22:29 Todd Toback 
Because the seller is more likely to sell it to them as a discount, you are brutally honest in a lot of ways. 
00:22:35 Todd Toback 
Now I don't need to tell them everything, I don't even say hey, I'm going to buy this house and I'm automatically going to sell it on the same day and make 40 grand. 
00:22:41 Todd Toback 
I don't need to say that, but what I can say is listen. I need to buy this. I'm going to sell it quickly and I need to make a prop. 
00:22:47 Todd Toback 
But if we can come to the meeting of the minds, let's do business. But if you want to earn top dollar, I'm not the guy like knowing that. Is there a reason for us to continue the conversation? 
00:22:59 
Yeah. 
00:23:00 Todd Toback 
Right, and then there's it. 
00:23:00 Todd Toback 
Right then there's it. 
00:23:00 JD 
And that that that line there alone should be in everybody arsenal. Because I, I mean it, it really gets to the chase into the matter of things. 
00:23:12 Todd Toback 
So this brings me to my next point. OK, this is the second of the five communication techniques that I talk about in a lot of the podcasts and the No limits cell systems. And that's. 
00:23:19 JD 
So before we jump into that though. I'm already losing track of time and I wanted to make sure that you guys definitely have to make sure you subscribe to Todd podcasts. 
00:23:32 JD 
Go to no limits real estate investing podcast because his podcast is chock full of these tips and you're just getting the. 
00:23:40 JD 
Tip of the iceberg here today, but I'm sorry I interrupted you, but you're going to. You're going to go into your second stage of communication. 
00:23:49 Todd Toback 
So the second stage of communication here is verbal commitments. All right. This is where you gotta separate the wheat from the chaff. 
00:23:57 Todd Toback 
And if I had to, I don't even pronounce that right. But you gotta separately from the shaft, whatever. However, they pronounce that. 
00:24:04 Todd Toback 
You know it's really important. 
00:24:06 Todd Toback 
If you think about sellers who sell to us, they're natural-born for crafts. 
00:24:09 Todd Toback 
Meters. 
00:24:10 Todd Toback 
Right, if you're behind on payments, you've kind of put your head in the sand right? And let this thing go on. If you're behind on taxes. Same thing if the house needs repair. 
00:24:20 Todd Toback 
You know you haven't dealt with that right? If you've got a family member living in there so you have to notice a pattern here forming really proactive people don't necessarily get into these things, right? 
00:24:32 Todd Toback 
Or someone now is unable to deal with it. So our job now is to move these people or more importantly have them move. 
00:24:40 Todd Toback 
In the path that they want to go. 
00:24:43 Todd Toback 
And that's either with you or the OR in another direction. And So what I'm trying to do here is you want to shorten the sales cycle, right? 
00:24:52 Todd Toback 
And the sales cycle is the time from when you speak to them to the time that they sign the contract. 
00:24:58 Todd Toback 
Right, and so you want to get that as short as possible so that every month you're earning as much money as humanly possible. 
00:25:04 Todd Toback 
And you're also not wasting time, and so most people do not know how they are going to arrive at this decision of their natural-born procrastinators. 
00:25:12 Todd Toback 
They'll say I'll talk to you later. Call me next week. I'm going to talk to my husband. I'm going to talk to my wife, and so a lot of times. 
00:25:18 Todd Toback 
You know you're gonna run into the laydowns by the way. People who are really motivated and want to do Business Today and believe me, who doesn't love a laydown, right, you know. 
00:25:27 
Right? 
00:25:29 Todd Toback 
But your business does not run on that, right? You know you're going to get three or four of those deals a year, and I hope you get a ton. 
00:25:36 Todd Toback 
90% of your deals are going to come from the follow-up of people who you spoke to 6090 days ago or a year ago or five years ago. 
00:25:45 
Umm? 
00:25:46 Todd Toback 
And so our job is to shrink that cycle by getting verbal commitments at the end of every phone call. 
00:25:51 Todd Toback 
So what I train people to do it, I say at the end of every phone call you should also have a date and time that you're going to speak next. But more importantly, dig really deep into what you both are going to do. 
00:26:05 Todd Toback 
Now and the next phone call. 
00:26:08 Todd Toback 
To take that next step in the process. 
00:26:11 Todd Toback 
And to find that with radical clarity. 
00:26:14 Todd Toback 
So that you go from a static position. 
00:26:17 Todd Toback 
So now moving towards doing business with you or. 
00:26:21 Todd Toback 
By the way. 
00:26:23 Todd Toback 
Not doing business, and so I always define that and I pull away. I say Mr. Seller. 
00:26:28 Todd Toback 
So let's get into this situation. Actually, don't do a role, play sure. Let's pretend like you've been kicking down the can down the road. 
00:26:35 Todd Toback 
OK, and I've been calling you for I don't know two months and you're like, hey my daughter is living in the property rent-free. 
00:26:35 
Mm-hmm 
00:26:44 Todd Toback 
OK, and you've been kind of telling me, you know, I, I'm going to talk to my daughter here and you're kicking me and that's but then now all of a sudden you've listened with the podcast. 
00:26:55 Todd Toback 
And I listen to his podcast and I'm like, OK, I'm now going to change this scenario. I'm gonna go from. 
00:27:00 Todd Toback 
I'm going to think about it, so now I'm going. 
00:27:01 Todd Toback 
To push this lady too. 
00:27:02 Todd Toback 
A decision. OK, so while we role play do me a favor like you know be that old person. 
00:27:03 
OK. 
00:27:07 Todd Toback 
But now kind of play along the right and see what I'm doing here and then become that character? Does that make sense? 
00:27:10 
Hmm. 
00:27:14 JD 
OK, I'll do my best. 
00:27:15 Todd Toback 
Don't be, you know. 
00:27:17 
OK. 
00:27:18 JD 
My acting skills need some work. 
00:27:18 
Great. 
00:27:20 Todd Toback 
OK, listening. 
00:27:23 JD 
Hello. 
00:27:25 Todd Toback 
Uh, is this Mary? 
00:27:27 JD 
Yeah, this is Mary. 
00:27:28 Todd Toback 
Hey Mary, this is Todd to back. I know that we spoke last week about me buying your property and you were going to think about it. 
00:27:39 Todd Toback 
Uh, you know what you're going to do. The daughter and if you were going to sell to me or not. 
00:27:42 JD 
Yeah, I remember you. 
00:27:44 Todd Toback 
Oh great, well, you're going to talk to your daughter. What happened? 
00:27:48 JD 
Well, it's it's. It's been kind of I haven't. I haven't gotten to it. 
00:27:55 Todd Toback 
OK, let's stop the role. Play for a second. 
00:27:58 JD 
OK. 
00:27:59 Todd Toback 
What just happened? 
00:28:01 Todd Toback 
Is what many sell? I mean you've been in this game a long time ago, right? You hate those phone calls, yeah? 
00:28:06 
Yeah. 
00:28:08 Todd Toback 
Right, I hate them too. 
00:28:10 Todd Toback 
So what we have to do now is create a pattern interrupt. Well, we have to change this pattern of what this person is going to going to do here. 
00:28:18 Todd Toback 
Alright, so watch how #1A mother going to try to push you away or I'm going to try to now shorten the sales cycle. OK, so let's come back to the role play. 
00:28:27 Todd Toback 
So Maryum is it OK if I'm very blunt with you? 
00:28:30 JD 
Oh yeah, yeah. OK, of course. 
00:28:33 Todd Toback 
Have you thought about just keeping this property and just leaving your daughter in there? 
00:28:38 JD 
Yeah, but I know she's really doing some damage to the place and I just don't really want to. 
00:28:46 JD 
I don't want the hassle anymore. 
00:28:48 Todd Toback 
OK, well would it be fair if you know I set kind of a path for us to either, maybe for us to move forward, or if we're not a fit kind of also define that path also and just say hey, you know what outfit is it? OK if I kind of just set a path for us? 
00:29:03 JD 
Yeah, I, I guess. I guess we can chat about that. 
00:29:07 Todd Toback 
OK, So what has to happen for you to be able to make a decision with your daughter to tell her? Hey listen, you know I'm going to sell this property 100%. 
00:29:18 Todd Toback 
Or not, you know what is that very next step that you think has to happen for you to talk to your daughter? 
00:29:25 Todd Toback 
Or make the decision of selling us the house with your daughter in the house. 
00:29:29 
Oh 
00:29:31 JD 
I don't know it, you know, I really it's my family. But, uh, I just know that I'm going to need that money that's sitting there eventually. 
00:29:41 JD 
And I know that it's just. It's just getting. It's just getting a kind of a worse scenario. If we keep this going. 
00:29:49 Todd Toback 
So what's holding you back at this point? 
00:29:52 JD 
No, just I. 
00:29:53 JD 
Guess the confrontation with my daughter. 
00:29:57 
What? 
00:29:57 Todd Toback 
And what would help relieve that confrontation? 
00:30:01 JD 
Somebody did it for me? 
00:30:04 Todd Toback 
OK, so you're. 
00:30:05 Todd Toback 
Saying you actually want someone to do that for you. 
00:30:08 JD 
Yeah, that would be helpful. 
00:30:12 Todd Toback 
So I was not expecting you to say that, but let me ask you this. 
00:30:16 Todd Toback 
And I'm not sure if this would be a fit or not, but let's say you and I were able to come to terms on price, right? 
00:30:23 Todd Toback 
And we put it on paper and opened escrow and title and I was able to talk to your daughter. 
00:30:29 Todd Toback 
Right with that and you wouldn't have to have that conversation at all. And I actually bought the place and she wouldn't even know until the house was sold. Would that be a fit? Or probably not? 
00:30:40 JD 
Yeah, I, I guess that would. 
00:30:43 JD 
I'd still be worried that you know and some will place out from under her and she's. 
00:30:50 JD 
She's surprised by it and now she's on the street, but I, I don't know what else to do right now. 
00:30:56 Todd Toback 
OK, well how could we eliminate that? 'cause I totally understand where you're coming from. I mean I have my own kids and I get that. 
00:31:02 Todd Toback 
How could we eliminate that that you know that worries about you not giving her any kind of notice? 
00:31:10 JD 
So well, I get. I guess we would, we just do exactly that, give her, give her some sort of notice. 
00:31:17 Todd Toback 
OK, so I mean again, this is, you know. 
00:31:19 Todd Toback 
This is you. 
00:31:21 Todd Toback 
You know your boss. You're driving it right would maybe would you want to give her as you know, a 60-day deadline to maybe buy the property. 
00:31:29 Todd Toback 
From you or tell her she's gotta move. 
00:31:31 Todd Toback 
And then if she didn't, you know you. You just tell her that you're going to sell the property. Would that be a fit? 
00:31:37 JD 
Yeah, that sounds reasonable, at least to me. 
00:31:41 Todd Toback 
OK, So what would be the next step? Do you want to talk to her this week? 
00:31:45 Todd Toback 
And tell her. 
00:31:47 JD 
Yeah, I think I can do that. 
00:31:50 Todd Toback 
OK, so why don't I do this and are you? Are you sure you're comfortable with that? 
00:31:55 JD 
Yeah, yeah. 
00:31:57 Todd Toback 
So that you know I. 
00:31:57 JD 
I think it's Diana. 
00:31:58 Todd Toback 
I don't want to put any pressure on you. You know again if you don't want to do business with me, I just want to let you know it's OK to say no. 
00:32:04 JD 
No, I think I think that's reasonable. 
00:32:08 Todd Toback 
OK, so why don't we do this? What day do you think you want to talk to her? 
00:32:13 JD 
Actually, she's coming over for coffee tomorrow. 
00:32:16 Todd Toback 
OK, uhm would it be OK if we talk? 
00:32:20 Todd Toback 
Tomorrow at 8:00 o'clock. 
00:32:22 Todd Toback 
And then you agree that you'll give your daughter notice. 
00:32:26 Todd Toback 
About selling and then tomorrow, you and I'll get together. And what do you want to do then? 
00:32:32 JD 
I guess that's up to you is do you need to see the place or what? What has to happen next? 
00:32:38 Todd Toback 
Yeah, I can. I can meet you in person. 
00:32:40 JD 
OK. 
00:32:41 Todd Toback 
That sounds good. 
00:32:42 JD 
Yeah, that sounds good. 
00:32:43 Todd Toback 
OK, well I'll talk to you tomorrow at the house at 8:00 PM. 
00:32:46 JD 
Sure. 
00:32:49 Todd Toback 
So what just happened? 
00:32:51 JD 
You'd convince them they basically talked themselves or went through that mental road map on their own. What I really liked about the way you staged those is you gave repeated options on them, making that verbal agreement to continue to move forward. 
00:33:11 JD 
There were a lot of chances for me to step out if I chose to. 
00:33:15 JD 
Right? 
00:33:16 Todd Toback 
Now the interesting part about this is this is a dance. 
00:33:19 Todd Toback 
So there you notice there's a lot of pressure. 
00:33:23 Todd Toback 
But I also have to relieve that pressure right, sometimes, right? You know. So like I feel, it's kind of like those instant pots. 
00:33:26 
Yeah. 
00:33:30 Todd Toback 
You know, I don't know if you have an instant pot, but you cook rice and then you have to release the pressure when it's cooked. 
00:33:34 Todd Toback 
So when I feel like I'm putting on the gas which I am, I say look if this is not a fit. You can just tell me no. 
00:33:42 Todd Toback 
And I keep going back there once I add pressure, and then I release, I add pressure and then I release right and so then you get to that point where you're right that you said it's 100% just so smooth is that she convinced herself. 
00:33:56 Todd Toback 
And verbalized that. 
00:33:58 Todd Toback 
And then I tried to pull it away and she goes no. 
00:34:01 Todd Toback 
I think it's, uh, I think it's time. 
00:34:04 Todd Toback 
By the way, I could tell you you're really good, you're probably. 
00:34:08 Todd Toback 
Really good with the over 65 clubs. 
00:34:11 Todd Toback 
Just your voice. 
00:34:11 JD 
I can be I can I can chat with them for quite a while, yeah? 
00:34:15 
Yeah. 
00:34:18 Todd Toback 
That would be great. 
00:34:21 Todd Toback 
So yeah, that's the second communication check and I can tell you that those are two of the five that will address here today, but I'm. 
00:34:29 Todd Toback 
You know, if you just master those two right and you just master those two, you're going to do just so much better. 
00:34:37 Todd Toback 
You know the other part about this though, is generating. You gotta have the power to be able to walk away from. 
00:34:42 Todd Toback 
A deal, right? 
00:34:43 Todd Toback 
You can't be chasing it and so you got to generate leads, right? And when you have leads and you're doing lots of follow-ups. 
00:34:50 Todd Toback 
And you're not just looking for the low-hanging fruit. Eventually, you're going to build a pop pipeline. That's going to give you the confidence to say, hey, listen. 
00:34:56 Todd Toback 
You know, I'm not going to chase you if you want to do business, great. If not, that's OK too. So leads plus skills, plus habit. You're unstoppable. 
00:35:07 JD 
Yeah. 
00:35:07 
Yeah. 
00:35:08 JD 
Wow, this is this. This has been amazing. The amount of information you've already given in this show, and I think we could have. We could probably go another 40 minutes or more. 
00:35:22 JD 
You're talking about. Once you get, uh, once you get a property under contract, what do you do with it? Because there's an I know you have techniques and strategies regarding disposition as well, but. 
00:35:36 
Uh-huh 
00:35:39 JD 
I hope that maybe you would consider coming back to the show and we can talk maybe about that. 
00:35:44 Todd Toback 
Yeah, I'd be happy to do a Part 2. I had a lot of fun today. You know, it's interesting. 
00:35:49 Todd Toback 
I love listening to some of your demeanor you know, so I'd love to come back on the show and we can talk about dispositions. 
00:35:56 JD 
Another day, yeah, I. I would really appreciate that. 
00:36:01 JD 
Again, uh before we go I usually close and you know, I feel like I've kind of stamping on the brakes here but I realize how, how much time I've consumed of yours? 
00:36:13 JD 
Uhm, is there a question or a concept that I haven't asked about regarding this initial getting a property under contract and talking to sellers that you think we should have covered here today? 
00:36:24 JD 
OK. 
00:36:25 Todd Toback 
Well, the one thing you know for me, I'm a big proponent of sales, right? And so I, I know that the people who understand this make you know, make money, right? 
00:36:35 Todd Toback 
And the people who grow their business understand that it's about working with other people who are going to do sales with them, right? 
00:36:40 Todd Toback 
You know, hiring a team eventually. I mean you can make a lot of money as a solo operator in this business, right? So if you're just a one-man. 
00:36:46 Todd Toback 
Showing her like I can't even think about it. I mean, you can make a ton of money in this business, but you know, don't get caught up in the values and an RV you know. Go out there and all you have to do is find someone. 
00:36:56 Todd Toback 
With a problem right spot that. 
00:36:57 
Uh. 
00:36:59 Todd Toback 
Categorize these people. Have a system to follow up and then lock that property up for as low as humanly possible. 
00:37:07 Todd Toback 
Right? 
00:37:07 Todd Toback 
Right and then go and then try to find a way to exit from that property. You're gonna sell it, or you're going to keep it as a rental, or you're going to fix it and rehab it. 
00:37:14 Todd Toback 
I don't care which one you're going to do. Obviously, I've wholesaled a lot and I and I've also bought and sold a ton. 
00:37:20 Todd Toback 
I've gotten help, but it's about the deal, right? And if you're unsure like is this the right deal or did I get this low enough? 
00:37:27 Todd Toback 
Just negotiate it as low as you can, right? If you go on the market and you see that your house you got under contract for lower than anything that is sold in the market. 
00:37:36 Todd Toback 
Start there. 
00:37:36 JD 
Yeah. 
00:37:37 Todd Toback 
Right, get out there, make some mistakes, talk to people. Lock something under contract and sell it for maximum value. 
00:37:44 Todd Toback 
And if you and if you make a mistake, that's OK. You can always go back to the seller and renegotiate. 
00:37:49 Todd Toback 
We try to avoid that. You know, we try to avoid that, but if you have to, you can. 
00:37:55 
Hmm. 
00:37:55 Todd Toback 
Right, and uh, man, you know. I think I've got about four more minutes. There's one thing that I'd like to talk about, but I think separates. 
00:38:04 Todd Toback 
People who make a lot of money from people who don't. 
00:38:07 Todd Toback 
Is that OK? 
00:38:08 JD 
Yeah, absolutely. 
00:38:09 Todd Toback 
So the one thing is the people who make money in this business or break out or have some kind of breakout move moment where they get to that next level. We all have this income thermostat right? This income thermostat is basically. 
00:38:26 Todd Toback 
The how comfortable we are with the current level of income that we're making. So for some people, it's 10 grand a year. 
00:38:32 Todd Toback 
For some people, it's 50 grand a year. A lot of people are for 50 grand a year. You know 102 fifty 500 million, $10 million a year. 
00:38:42 Todd Toback 
And what we do every day. 
00:38:44 Todd Toback 
Depends. 
00:38:46 Todd Toback 
On whether or not our income is above or below. 
00:38:50 Todd Toback 
Where our thermostat is set or internal thermostat. So if you're making 75 or 100K a year and that's where your thermostat is. 
00:38:59 Todd Toback 
You're not going to go out. You're not going to talk to people you're not going to go out, and you're not going to sharpen your skill. 
00:39:04 Todd Toback 
You're not going to bust through barriers, right? But you notice a lot of people. They're on this income roll. 
00:39:08 Todd Toback 
Coaster well it's not like the business isn't on a roller coaster, it's that they're on a roller coaster. 
00:39:14 
Ehm 
00:39:15 Todd Toback 
Right, well, they're going out and they're taking action, but the Long story short is because they've made an amount of money that they're comfortable with, right that previous month, and so when they hit that thermostat, that level they stopped the work that made them successful. 
00:39:31 Todd Toback 
Like they stopped making the calls, they stopped making offers. They stopped role-playing. They stopped, you know, meeting with people and making that happen right and So what happens when their income falls? 
00:39:42 Todd Toback 
The thermostat goes on. They start doing the work. Income comes upright? Yeah, I'm OK, I'm OK. And then all of a sudden the thermostat goes off again. So here's one of my recommendations. 
00:39:52 Todd Toback 
Oh yeah. 
00:39:53 
Yeah. 
00:39:54 Todd Toback 
If you want to set a level of income that you really want to get to write something that's above your comfort zone. So if you're making 100 grand a year and you want to get netted net a million. 
00:40:05 Todd Toback 
You've got to put that in a place where you see that every day you want to write it down and you want to say it out loud. I'm making $1,000,000. 
00:40:15 Todd Toback 
A year net in my pocket and you want to say that every morning and every night Now this is not some magic Juju right that happens not like the whole thing about the secret. What happens is is that when you say this out loud it creates tension. 
00:40:31 Todd Toback 
Right, John Maxwell talks about this is called the law of the Rubber Band, and it creates tension from where you are to where you want to be, and because you reminded yourself with that, you now are uncomfortable saying you feel like a fraud you're like. Oh, I'm not there. So you go to work every day and now your thermostat turns on. 
00:40:50 Todd Toback 
To a level now worth not used to turning. 
00:40:52 
Yeah. 
00:40:53 Todd Toback 
Right, and you start changing your habits and your routines and how you think and what you say. 
00:40:59 Todd Toback 
And so you always want to be working on that thermostat pushing that level when you get to it, you got to change it again. 
00:41:04 Todd Toback 
You got to change it again and so I use that by affirmations. I use that by looking at how much money I'm making every single month, or how much equity I built-in in my property. 
00:41:14 Todd Toback 
And again, so if you're. If you're out there and you're uncomfortable and you're trying to, you're a newbie. You're trying to do your first deal. 
00:41:19 Todd Toback 
You've got to get really uncomfortable from where you're at. You've got to get angry and frustrated. And just like you know. 
00:41:26 Todd Toback 
And that's when it changed. 
00:41:28 Todd Toback 
Is going to happen. That's willing to go out there. You're going to drop the money and get some leads or cold call and make that happen. Or if you're going to dive into the sales system and learn this and talk to people. 
00:41:38 Todd Toback 
Get uncomfortable, get angry, run towards something where you want to be OK and I guarantee it's going to change your life. 
00:41:46 JD 
Wow, talking about an ending I have to make sure everybody heads over to the podcast again. No limits. Real Estate Investing podcast. 
00:41:57 JD 
Todd toback 
00:41:59 JD 
What a stellar time I've had here with you today. I really appreciate it and if you don't mind, I'm going to. I'm going to shoot you an email so we can do Part 2 regarding dispositions. 
00:42:11 Todd Toback 
Love tip. 
00:42:13 JD 
So thank you, Sir. 
00:42:14 Todd Toback 
Alright, talk to you soon.