REI Mastermind Network | Real Estate Investing Strategies & Mindset
Establish Your Digital Real Estate with Todd Baldwin and Ryan Nielsen #240
June 6, 2021
Today JD chats with Todd Baldwin and Ryan Nielsen of Investor Nitro. Investor Nitro's lead generation team received the opportunity to help We Buy Houses investors with lead generation in 2016. Since then, they’ve fine-tuned the digital marketing strategies that attract the type of leads specific to America’s real estate investors. Show notes and transcript at Investor Nitro was born after parent company Everyday Media Group found that real estate investors needed a solution for getting online fast. We wanted to provide a place we could focus on real estate investor's unique lead generation needs. Our team is ready to help entrepreneurs even more excited about motivated seller leads than we are! Investor Nitro members can expect the same quality of service that Everyday Media Group embraces: Transparency, ROI, and Best Customer Service on the Planet.
Today JD chats with Todd Baldwin and Ryan Nielsen of Investor Nitro. Investor Nitro's lead generation team received the opportunity to help We Buy Houses investors with lead generation in 2016. Since then, they’ve fine-tuned the digital marketing strategies that attract the type of leads specific to America’s real estate investors.

Investor Nitro was born after parent company Everyday Media Group found that real estate investors needed a solution for getting online fast. They wanted to provide a place they could focus on real estate investor's unique lead generation needs. Their team is ready to help entrepreneurs even more excited about motivated seller leads than they are!

Investor Nitro members can expect the same quality of service that Everyday Media Group embraces: Transparency, ROI, and Best Customer Service on the Planet.

Connect with Todd and Ryan at:

As you can already tell we have made some changes and a few more are on the way. If you are interested in what we have planned, head over to, and support the show today. Financial contributions are always appreciated along with a LIKE, SHARE, and REVIEW.  It really helps us grow and reach more people with this valuable information.  See you next time and tell a friend!



"You can invest 10,000 hours and become an expert or learn from those who have already made that investment." - JD


00:00:01 JD Hoss 
Well, we have Todd Baldwin and Ryan Nielsen on the call and they are with That's a great domain guys. 
00:00:11 JD 
I gotta give you props for that because we're going to spend some time and talk a little bit about real estate investment leads. 
00:00:20 JD 
Made easy and I hope you guys can help us out because you both are a part of a company that helps investors. Find that digital presence. Find those consistent leads online, right? 
00:00:36 Todd Baldwin 
That is correct. 
00:00:39 JD 
So, as we chatted early on, we wanted to make sure that we start at the very beginning and talk a little bit about what people typically do on their own and struggle through some of this versus a value proposition that you bring. You know, a company. 
00:00:59 JD 
Such as yours, so can you. Can you talk a little bit about what you've seen in the past and what type of results? I know that's jumping right in, but I think that's where we need to start. 
00:01:12 Todd 
Yeah we can. I'll let me just talk a little bit about quick back story how we got into the real estate investment space. 
00:01:18 JD 
00:01:19 Todd 
Back in April of 2016 we had an opportunity to present to 
00:01:25 Todd 
Don't confuse them with. We buy ugly houses. Just simply a national brand and what does they sell counties to real estate investors? And if you purchase a county or the only investor in that county. 
00:01:38 Todd 
And they're very big on Google Ads used to be known as AdWords or pay-per-click advertising and 
00:01:47 Todd 
They will actually build out a campaign for their investor, their licensees. They like to call them, but what they don't do, JD, is they don't actively manage those campaigns for them. 
00:01:57 Todd 
On an ongoing. Daily, weekly, monthly basis so. It's pretty much. Build it out, set it and forget it. So that was our end. That's our opportunity to come in and talk to their licensees on why it is beneficial for an agency like us to actually come in. 
00:02:13 Todd 
It's been trained by Google certified by Google and actually manage those AdWords campaigns or known as Google Ads now manage those campaigns on a daily, weekly, monthly basis. And so you talk about them trying to do it themselves. That's what we experienced out of the gate with a lot of the licensees with we buy houses and I'll give you a quick example 'cause we did an audit on some of those campaigns. 
00:02:35 Todd 
One of the biggest investor at the time is out of Phoenix and we looked at his AdWords campaign. Uhm, we noticed he was spending several 100 bucks a month on the keyword. 
00:02:45 Todd 
We buy bounce houses now. When I say “bounce house”, I'm referring to the kid play kid bounce house and this particular recipe had no idea that he was literally throwing away 
00:02:55 Todd 
$200-$300 away of month just out the window because he was is ads were being served up on that search those keywords and he was getting clicks which obviously if someone looking for a bounce house and lands on a real estate investment landing page, they're going to exit very quickly with no action, no conversion so. 
00:03:12 Todd 
That's how we got into this space and since then, which will be five years disabled, we've been working with real estate investors around the country trying to help not only with their Google ads, but website development, and they're really their overall presence online. In particular, Google and we also do some Facebook paid ads as well. 
00:03:30 JD 
Well before then had you worked with any real estate investors? 
00:03:34 Todd 
Not until not prior to November or excuse me, April of 2016. We had never worked with any real estate investors. We worked with other verticals. 
00:03:44 Todd 
A lot of service-based businesses as well, but real estate investors become one of our main verticals and so I feel like we have a really good experience in that space. 
00:03:54 Todd 
As far as what these guys are looking for, which everybody looking for the motivated seller. 
00:03:58 JD 
Right, so can you talk a little bit about like the research and the work that you went into to figure out this new industry? 
00:04:08 Todd 
Well, we've done a ton of Google ads in the past as far as, so we thought we'd get a feel of how to make Google ads work for a particular business. 
00:04:17 Todd 
So when we jumped into the real estate investment space, we were able to talk a lot with the we buy House team and look at those campaigns and see what the keywords were and look at their listed keywords. 
00:04:29 Todd 
And how they're building out and what the you know, what defines a motivated seller? And so it's really just combination of working with the guys in where we buy houses, the corporate office and US jumping into those campaigns and just doing, you know, following our process of how we manage an AdWords campaign and so. 
00:04:47 Todd 
We when we look at that, I mean we talk about Google ads and there's also the search in search engine optimization side which is Ryan can speak on when you want to talk about that other side of Google as well. 
00:04:58 Todd 
But jumping in AdWords it was really just working with the we buy house guys and getting a real good feel for how their business works because until we jumped in I. 
00:05:06 Todd 
We've never worked in real estate investors. 
00:05:08 JD 
Right now, the reason I ask is you know before the show you and I were chatting a little bit about my experience with an agency such as, you know, I don't want to put say such as yours because frankly, by the sounds of it, it's night and day. 
00:05:21 JD 
I mean the company that I had had no experience with real estate investors and they were large company fairly. 
00:05:28 JD 
Large company and I just felt like I was being put into the whatever box they thought I'd fit in and I wasn't getting anywhere near the results that I felt I should. In fact, I it almost felt like I was developing. 
00:05:41 JD 
The keywords and the campaign anyway. 
00:05:45 Todd 
Right, right you mentioned they kept wanting you to be a realtor and not a real estate investor. 
00:05:51 JD 
00:05:52 Todd 
So apples and oranges. 
00:05:53 JD 
So it felt like I was competing against myself or competing against an industry that I really wasn't interested in. 
00:06:00 Todd 
Right, right? So I'm sure that was a pretty frustrating experience, so I think one of the things we talked to new potential clients that they obviously like is the fact that we have been working in this space going on five years. 
00:06:13 Todd 
So if we're running the Google ads campaign for somebody we're actually in, let's say we test some ad copy or test keywords or. 
00:06:21 Todd 
Uhm, whatever it may be converged looking at a site trying to make it convert better. We do come across things that we feel like are working or moving the needle. 
00:06:28 Todd 
Then a lot of times we'll share that across the board with all of our accounts. So if we're testing here, there's a really good chance it could benefit you, even though it could be 2 totally separate sides of the country. So just one of the benefits of working with an agency. 
00:06:41 Todd 
That works with a lot of different real estate investors around the country. 
00:06:47 JD 
Yeah, so the that that agent that company that you helped with and you found that they were advertising for bounce houses? 
00:06:53 JD 
Have you found that that's the case? It almost sounds like they probably copied and pasted a list of keywords from somewhere, someplace and hit and hit pay and off it ran. 
00:07:06 Todd 
That campaign was built by the We buy House. Uh, we buy houses corporate. So what we found with those campaigns, they were built out of the gate properly. But well, Google is really good at. Is giving you suggestions, especially if it. 
00:07:18 Todd 
Your do it yourself when you're trying to manage your own campaign, they give you these suggestions that make it look like. 
00:07:25 Todd 
Click here add these suggestions to your campaign and you'll magically move the needle and a lot of times what we found. 
00:07:32 Todd 
Those are just designed to make Google money and not lead to better conversions or to better optimize. 
00:07:38 Todd 
Or a better-performing campaign. So that's really they're really good at letting waste creep in there. You know, one of the main things you've got to do with an AdWords simple AdWords account. I'm gonna say AdWords and Google ads. I'm gonna get them intertwined all day 'cause I've said. 
00:07:52 Todd 
So AdWords for the last 15 years and they just changed it. So excuse my if I'm saying the wrong terminology. 
00:07:58 Todd 
Anybody out there listening that knows what I'm talking about? But yeah, they're great at giving you those suggestions. Hoping you'll spend more money and like I would say one of the best basic things you've got to do is create a negative keyword list and then constantly be updating that. 
00:08:12 Todd 
List and so it's as simple as making bounce house. You know, putting that on your keyword negative list. So telling Google I do not want to show up for bounce houses, so just simple things like that that if you're doing it yourself. 
00:08:26 Todd 
More than likely going to miss a lot of these little things that can really help you. 
00:08:29 Todd 
00:08:30 Todd 
Perform better. 
00:08:31 JD 
Well, that that was a piece of information there that I think people a lot of people probably aren't familiar with is that there's even a negative keyword list. 
00:08:41 JD 
When it comes to Google ads. 
00:08:43 Todd 
Yes, we have a. We have a very robust keyword, less negative keyword list and anytime we launch a new campaign with a new client there, we're automatically loading that list up to their campaigns as well. 
00:08:54 Todd 
So out of the gate, you're ready, you're really getting the best of our best campaigns to that date, meaning anything we've changed or tested that. 
00:09:02 Todd 
We thought it's working. 
00:09:04 Todd 
We're always incorporating that into a new campaign for a new real estate investor that we may be launching. 
00:09:11 JD 
So how do you manage these? These Google campaigns? Are they like in the individuals Google ads account or do you have some sort of consolidated portal that you manage all of this from? 
00:09:25 Todd 
Well, typically they are in our what's called an MCC account. They're in our Google account and. 
00:09:33 Todd 
Click that out there and so, but we've also managed accounts. People we've talked to, our guys, and they've already had a Google Adwords account set up in their own MCC, and so the glasses. 
00:09:43 Todd 
Can you just build it in my account so we're happy to do that too? We don't. We're not in the business of holding campaigns hostage or. 
00:09:52 Todd 
When we build out a new campaign, we do charge a one-time setup fee. It's our feeling that hey, if you're going to pay us to set it up, it's your campaign. 
00:09:58 Todd 
So if someone were working with us and were to leave, they can take that campaign with them as well. But to answer your. 
00:10:04 Todd 
Question majority of our Google ads campaigns are built in our MCC account and we're managing them because most of the areas we talked to. 
00:10:14 Todd 
Aren't they don't have their own account set up? They don't manage their own account, nor do they want to. 
00:10:20 JD 
Sure, I feel like we've kind of done this a little backwards because I and we're going to have to get to the search engine optimization and stuff here soon. 
00:10:28 JD 
00:10:29 JD 
And usually that you usually have to support what you're talking about with a good website and SEO, but. 
00:10:38 JD 
Could we get a couple ideas as you know, like I told you when we started this recording that a lot of investors are trying to wring out every penny they can in marketing, uh? 
00:10:51 JD 
A great example is what we were chatting about before as well is our postcards and the mailing campaigns. We're just not seeing the return on investment that we have in the past, like what. 
00:11:04 JD 
What ways do you have to keep costs under control and like low-hanging fruit that somebody could possibly implement right now for their Google ad campaign? 
00:11:17 Todd 
Well, that's a great question. We hear questions like that similar to that a bunch. Google does a really good job. 
00:11:24 Todd 
We talked about this earlier, not giving you a formula of 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 and they don't really give you the playbook of how to make it all work. 
00:11:32 Todd 
Obviously, they're a little more helpful with AdWords, 'cause that's their paid elements where they're making all their money. 
00:11:37 Todd 
One of the simple things you can do to really help your campaigns. We just talked about. Make sure you have a robust negative keyword list and you are telling Google what you do not want to show up with and really doing that. 
00:11:51 Todd 
The way to come over that is just to be monitoring your campaign. Looking at it daily, weekly, and making sure seeing what searches. 
00:11:58 Todd 
They're coming in and making sure if you see any. 
00:12:01 Todd 
Thing that you don't want to be showing up for that is that's in your account. Adding that to your negative keyword list it, it just takes it, and I think that's why agencies or I should say why so many people don't want to manage these. 
00:12:15 Todd 
'cause it does take real work. It does take real effort daily to look at these campaigns and see what is going on. 
00:12:21 Todd 
With those as far as the you mentioned the cost per lead or no the ROI. What were you saying you feel like your motivate their leader down or? 
00:12:31 JD 
00:12:33 JD 
Yeah, our the ROI on our mail-out campaigns right now is very very poor, you know? 
00:12:41 JD 
Uhm, if you get a 1% response rate you that's amazing. 
00:12:43 Todd 
Trying to put plates up now. 
00:12:49 Todd 
What was that again? 
00:12:50 JD 
If you get a 1% response rate, that's amazing. 
00:12:53 Todd 
Right? We thought with Ad Words there's fluctuation in this so little background. We've been doing AdWords Google ads for. Like I said, 10 years ever since they launched it. 
00:13:04 Ryan 
The Real estate investment vertical in this space for some reason we do see it go up and down and. 
00:13:14 Todd 
If you were looking at our corporate site everyday, you said three core values on there and one of them #2 is 100% transparent. 
00:13:22 Todd 
So I'm very transparent with all of our potential new REI's and I tell them look, there's we're going to have some really great months and bijen along, and then we may hit a dip or two and go down the key things. 
00:13:34 Todd 
Don't panic, just stay the course, look at the data because we have seen. 
00:13:41 Todd 
Our months go up and down. Great months turn into OK months might have a bad month and all sudden we're trending back upwards and 100% transparency. 
00:13:48 Todd 
Sometimes we're looking at each other saying what is actually causing all this. We have ideas and theories, but Google doesn't tell you they don't. 
00:13:55 Todd 
You know also have a green light popping on. You hit the magic combination and keep doing that so. 
00:14:00 Todd 
They definitely make a challenge in that, and to me it's just 'cause they want to keep getting paid right. They want to keep that advertising medium going and not make it. 
00:14:07 Todd 
Easy for anybody to figure it out. The keywords go up and down to we see costs up and down anywhere from you know. $20 up to 60 seventy $80.00 a click. 
00:14:18 Todd 
We definitely don't want to. We don't want to be paying $80.00 per click if we don't have to at the same time we paid $67 a click and we're getting conversions. 
00:14:28 Todd 
We've never had investor tells that's bad, so it's really what's the data telling us and then try to adjust and keep moving. 
00:14:35 JD 
And I'd guess that those clicks have a lot to do with the market you're targeting as well, like. 
00:14:41 JD 
If you're in Houston, TX because of the size of the market compared to Fargo ND. 
00:14:49 JD 
It's the cost. 
00:14:51 JD 
Per click is going to be pretty different. 
00:14:53 Todd 
It is. It can definitely your geographic area can definitely dictate that more competition. I mean it is a real life. It's a live auction. It's. 
00:15:02 Todd 
Key ones getting bit on throughout the day. Everyday all day long so. 
00:15:06 Todd 
We have a new campaign in Omaha, NE. We've actually never run a campaign there, but we're only a week or so old, but our cost for clicks $56 and I was actually talking to the gentleman who runs our campaigns this morning and say, you know, what can we do to lower that? 
00:15:21 Todd 
And he looked at the data and said, well, Google say we need to raise our clicks. So obviously we'll make some tweaks. 
00:15:26 Todd 
We're trying to get that cost down 'cause we typically don't. Don't run an average of 56 costs per click, but out of the gate. 
00:15:32 Todd 
Great, that's what it is right now, so hopefully we'll be able to get that down a little bit 'cause investors can get a little bit, especially new ones that are getting in into AdWords and seeing that type of a cost just to have a Click to have an opportunity to get a conversion. 
00:15:48 JD 
So with that being said, is there a suggestion like what does what would you typically recommend on the low end? 
00:15:55 JD 
For somebody to budget on a monthly basis for something like this. 
00:15:59 Todd 
Well, that particular investors budgeted too low, so we're getting a click a day and we're off when we look at how we do our management fees and our when we talk about budgets, our smallest budget that will recommend or run is 1500 a month and so that only gives you. 
00:16:17 Todd 
$50 a day 'cause Google if you just do the easy math. 30 days in a month about divided by 15. 
00:16:23 Todd 
It only gives you $50 a day to run, so that could be one click and you're down, meaning your ads are offline for the rest of the day. 
00:16:30 Todd 
So it really just depends on the area and Geo how big it population we're targeting and things of that nature. 
00:16:37 Todd 
For budget recommendation, uhm, looking at say Omaha, NE, he needs to be a minimum, probably 2500 a month to 3000. Just looking at early data coming in. 
00:16:48 Todd 
00:16:49 Todd 
It's obviously not a. 
00:16:52 Todd 
Uh, achieve this medium out there, but we all know one deal couple deals a month. Could be a great ROI with the Google ads campaign. 
00:17:01 JD 
Yeah, and I don't want to. The reason I asked you is I didn't want to scare people off because frankly. 
00:17:07 JD 
00:17:09 JD 
Some of the yellow letter campaigns that a lot of people are running right now costs far more than 1500 a month. 
00:17:14 JD 
Sure, sure, yeah. 
00:17:14 JD 
Sure, yeah. 
00:17:14 JD 
00:17:15 Ryan 
Yeah, we started. 
00:17:15 Todd 
Now since the back it's, you know, $5 is $5 right? So and we definitely can serve it with people budget. 
00:17:23 Todd 
We take that really seriously. It's everybody works hard, hard to make, make money, and so when we're doing our campaigns on Google, we definitely I always feel like we start off on a more conservative approach. 
00:17:34 Todd 
To really see what the. 
00:17:34 Todd 
Data tells us and make those adjustments based on what the campaign is telling us. Even though like I said, we run them all. 
00:17:40 Todd 
All day every day that of the year we've got a campaign running, but they're all different. They're all unique to that territory and what's going on today? 
00:17:48 Todd 
What what happened today? Obviously in Google ads is different than what happened back in 2016, so it just always changing. 
00:17:56 Todd 
But we're big believers in it. We if it done right, we really think it can have a positive impact and produce a good ROI. 
00:18:04 Todd 
But also tell people, hey, it's just one channel, right? It did, you know, we're working together you said hey, I'm doing Drake now and it's working. 
00:18:11 Todd 
But I'm thinking about moving my budget to AdWords. I'd say no, that Channel is working. Keep doing it, you know. 
00:18:17 Todd 
Don't stop it. 
00:18:19 Todd 
If you want try AdWords, create a new budget right? So because it is it's just one channel of many that you can do in this space as you know. 
00:18:22 JD 
Right, right? 
00:18:28 JD 
So and just to remind everybody, head over to For more information and connect. 
00:18:35 JD 
With Ryan and Todd regarding this option and these what, what options that they have available for you, I think I think you even have a free quick consult or an audit, don't you? 
00:18:49 Todd 
Yes, we do, and you mentioned one of the when you mentioned that a while ago. What are some of the things you can do is to to help your campaign is if you see something like we're offering, take that agency up on it and let them do it. Free analysis on your AdWords account. 
00:19:03 Todd 
And see what they're seeing in in in suggestions and what not. Our consultation is exactly what's designed for. 
00:19:11 Todd 
We're happy to take a look at your Google ads account campaign and tell you what we like and what we don't like. 
00:19:17 Todd 
And a lot of times we look at and we see a lot of things we don't like. But there's also times JD where we see a lot of things we do like. 
00:19:23 Todd 
So at the end of the day, it's free information that to do what you want with it, we hope. Well, obviously we'd love to work with you, but. 
00:19:30 Todd 
But if we feel like you're doing a good job in right hands, will tell you that. So we're big believers that there's plenty of business for everybody, so you'll never hear Sabbatia competitor, and you know it is what it is as far as when we see the data, we'll let you know. 
00:19:45 Todd 
Hey, here's our thoughts. So a lot of good tip. There's a lot of good tips in there, and if not, it's done right. 
00:19:50 Todd 
00:19:51 Todd 
Help you. 
00:19:53 Todd 
Correct some things that might be costing you money or some reasons why. Maybe you're converting poorly. 
00:19:59 JD 
Right, well one of the things I'm going to head over to Ryan here Ryan. I'm going to put you on the spot on a couple things because you mentioned Todd that you wouldn't stop 11 Avenue if it's working for you. One of the things that I found that has worked for us to a certain extent is. 
00:20:19 JD 
In my direct mail campaign, I ensure that I have a web URL on every piece that goes up, because if they're not going to call me, I can at least drive them to my website where I have the Facebook pixel and the Google Pixel. All of that loaded and ready for them so I can chase them around a little bit, but. 
00:20:39 JD 
Brian, what can you talk a little bit about the importance of a website and. 
00:20:44 JD 
And what some of that low-hanging fruit there that people may be missing? 
00:20:50 JD 
I know some people will go as far as just throw up a WordPress site and hope for the best. 
00:20:57 Ryan 
Yeah, so digitally and this is even true in direct mail campaigns for the most part. Ultimately they a lot of the direct mail campaigns I see you're driving somebody to a website to ultimately convert, and so it's sort of the you know, if you build it, they will come sort of thing in the organic. 
00:21:15 Ryan 
Space, but even in paid and in direct mail there ultimately has to be somewhere for them to land and ultimately provide information if they're not going to call the number directly on the card, and so. 
00:21:24 Ryan 
So I mean. 
00:21:26 Ryan 
What we've really found over the past four or five years of building real estate investor websites is that. 
00:21:32 Ryan 
00:21:34 Ryan 
It's a little bit of. 
00:21:36 Ryan 
A saturated market is the right word, but there's a lot of players that are out there and there's a lot of people who have thrown up real estate investor websites with pictures of fistfuls of cash on the. 
00:21:47 Ryan 
And what I find in a lot of our marketing efforts is that there's a lot of what I call these sort of drive-by submissions of somebody who will go and submit to 10 different real estate investor websites and then let's just see who can get me closest to market a. 
00:22:02 Ryan 
A big thing that we have tried to drive home with the websites that we've been building is making them. 
00:22:07 Ryan 
Personal making the real estate investor the face of that and focusing really on. 
00:22:13 Ryan 
00:22:14 Ryan 
The pain that's sort of driving somebody towards a real estate investor. What is the need? Why are they involved in this transaction? 
00:22:21 Ryan 
Because for most of these people, yes, there's relief. If they get rid of their house, but this isn't a problem that they wanted to have to begin with, and so I want to make sure that it's very relationship-focused and very consumer-focused in its orientation. 
00:22:36 Ryan 
Uh, we build in WordPress as well and we did. We did for SDL reasons. We did some piloting in another platform at 1.2, but we've kind of come back to WordPress just because it tends to be very easy for both our staff and for our customers to use. 
00:22:52 JD 
Right? No, and WordPress is a great platform. It's just that you know, like what I mentioned was, is that. 
00:22:58 JD 
But people trying to do some of this on their own, they don't have a lot of website building skills and they jump on five or pay somebody 5 bucks to throw up a template. 
00:23:11 Ryan 
Yeah, and I mean and a lot of it really depends on what it is your ambitions are from a marketing perspective. 
00:23:18 Ryan 
For example, there is a lot that you can get away with in a Google Adwords campaign that you can't get away with so much in the search engine optimization campaign. 
00:23:26 Ryan 
And so well. 
00:23:28 Ryan 
What we try to do, since those are. 
00:23:30 Ryan 
Those two channels are our primary channels for advertising. We're trying to make sure that these two channels can work very synergistically. 
00:23:36 Ryan 
Because the needs of COR now. 
00:23:38 Ryan 
Not opposed to the needs of AdWords that we can get you firing on all cylinders for both of those channels, there's a good chance the AdWords and SEO will both convert really well. 
00:23:49 Ryan 
So I'm I mean the biggest problem that I find when people go and this goes into Google Adwords. 
00:23:58 Ryan 
Advertising too, is that the? 
00:24:00 Ryan 
00:24:02 Ryan 
The ceiling there, the amount of things that you could know. 
00:24:04 Ryan 
00:24:05 Ryan 
About doing any of these things is just immense, and for a lot of our real estate investors, that's really not how they want to be. 
00:24:12 Ryan 
Spending the majority of their time is getting into the weeds of AdWords for example. 
00:24:19 Ryan 
Or getting into the weeds of website development. It's really a situation where you can take advantage of all of this wealth. 
00:24:26 Ryan 
Of knowledge that we've collected over the past five years in a very vertical, specific way. Because you brought this up earlier in the call. 
00:24:33 Ryan 
This is a problem in the agency space is you're an agency. You do AdWords, so you could do AdWords in any vertical you could do SCO in any vertical you write, copy in any vertical. 
00:24:43 Ryan 
00:24:44 Ryan 
That's not really the case in my experience on the level of specialization that we've been able to apply to, this has led to a situation where we've been able to cultivate a few high-performing templates that we have data we know. 
00:24:56 Ryan 
Hey, we don't need to go into a vague process designing some custom website for you. We've got things that work. We've got campaigns that work if. 
00:25:04 Ryan 
We can get an appropriate budget together with very good chance of success in your market without having to spend a lot of time sort of building from the ground up. 
00:25:15 JD 
So you know at one point you know I heard quite for quite a while that content is king and you know it's all about trying to feed the website with value and content. 
00:25:28 JD 
I think that's the one thing that scares a lot of investors off too, because who has time to write all that? 
00:25:29 Ryan 
00:25:36 Ryan 
No, it's a lot of effort, and there's frankly a lot of things that you need to know to really build, particularly on the SCO side to build content that is going to rank well. 
00:25:47 Ryan 
Uhm, so that's one of the big value ads that we really bring to the table is for all of our sites we do write unique SCO optimized content and that content is informed by the hundreds and hundreds of patients that we've produced in the past few years. In all these different markets and seeing what performs and what doesn't. 
00:26:07 Ryan 
Uhm, so it's. 
00:26:10 Ryan 
Again, it's one of those areas and I would even say in AdWords two things have changed in AdWords too I I don't know if this has been talked about on previous podcasts, but Google last year changed the way that we could bid on real estate related keywords and one of the most substantial was that they got rid of our ability. 
00:26:31 Ryan 
To target based on ZIP code, which was a big deal for real estate investors because we would get guys who call in and be like hey man I keep getting calls in this in this particular zip code and I don't want it. 
00:26:42 Ryan 
And some of that targeting has been taken away for various reasons that we can get into. If you want to, but so it's all the more need at this point in time to have somebody who's really carefully watching that campaign and trying to make sure that we are actually getting motivated sellers from the clicks that we're getting. 
00:26:48 Ryan 
00:27:01 JD 
Wait, yeah, now that you opened the door why did they make that change? 
00:27:08 Ryan 
Uhm, I think that there's some sort of legislative rumblings going on about equal opportunity and people being able to get housing and some perception. 
00:27:18 Ryan 
I think in government that real estate investors make it difficult for low-income people to buy homes. 
00:27:25 Ryan 
And so they got ready. And it wasn't just it wasn't just zip codes. 
00:27:30 Ryan 
They did a bunch of things, uhm? 
00:27:33 Ryan 
Gender, age, parental status, marital status and things that they felt were sensitive categories that might lead to discrimination in the way that we were bidding on their ads. 
00:27:44 Ryan 
So that's something that we've had to adapt to in the past six or seven months. And it's just another challenge that sort of brought to the table, I think. 
00:27:53 Ryan 
For a real estate investor who maybe already doesn't know what they're doing, and on top of that has been given a little bit less targeting than they used to have. 
00:28:02 JD 
00:28:02 Ryan 
00:28:03 JD 
Well, it sounds like a majority of the targeting is gone. Now how do you? How do you target some of these people? 
00:28:04 Todd 
00:28:13 Ryan 
Well, uhm, there's a lot of different strategies that we can employ, but a lot of it gets back to the negative list and to try. 
00:28:22 Ryan 
And you know, in every market it's a little bit different, and trying to look at it and determine. 
00:28:26 Ryan 
Which of these clicks are actually resulting in qualified leads? Because this can vary from market to market. You can you have this conventional wisdom that sell my house fast or we buy houses that these are just money keywords everywhere, everywhere, everywhere. 
00:28:40 Ryan 
Some markets they don't perform as well as they do in others, and So what we do look at as we gather data and these campaigns. 
00:28:47 Ryan 
Is try to determine. 
00:28:48 Ryan 
Uh, which keywords are performing best and pulling off of keywords that aren't even in the absence of some of these, these nice bid modifiers that we used to have. 
00:28:59 JD 
So you know when people start paying for ads to promote their website, whether them using keywords and a few other things. 
00:29:08 JD 
How does that impact the organic search engine up search engine results? Does that impact it at all just because of the extra? 
00:29:18 JD 
Traffic, or is it? 
00:29:20 JD 
Not even associated. 
00:29:21 Ryan 
00:29:23 Ryan 
Yeah, so it's. It's been. I'm not sure that this has ever been explicitly said, but it's been suspected for a long time. 
00:29:29 Ryan 
That user engagement signals like time on page for example, and balance rate are being taken into account to determine the quality of the page. 
00:29:38 Ryan 
One of the things that you do have in an organic campaign is that when you're starting from the. 
00:29:42 Ryan 
Bottom up, there's not a lot of traffic that's just flowing to your website. In other words, there's just not a lot of data that's being collected earlier on, and the quality of those pages, and so again, as far as I'm aware, this is not something that Google has shown their hand on. But being able to drive traffic through PPC to your website and to begin. 
00:30:02 Ryan 
We demonstrate through those user engagement metrics that people are actually finding value on that page. I believe increases the likelihood that it will rank organically as well, because organic is definitely driven by those kinds of signals. 
00:30:15 JD 
Sure, how about like video and some other kind of content? How important is that now, as part of that content on a website? 
00:30:25 Ryan 
Uhm, video is crucial. This gets back to some of the personalization that we talked about. I'm a big thing. 
00:30:30 Ryan 
I try to drive our clients to do is to develop a personal relationship with that person on the home page. 
00:30:37 Ryan 
So again, rather than having stock photos of fistfuls of cash, I'd like to have a, you know, maybe a photo of the. 
00:30:43 Ryan 
Of of the investor and his family, right? I build that personal relationship with it with them on the home page and if and if I do have an investor who either has a video or we've even. 
00:30:55 Ryan 
I mean, in the past we've even developed video with our investors, if that opportunity avails itself, I'll put that towards the top of the page. 
00:31:03 Ryan 
Because video gets a lot of engagement, increases the time on-page. Getting back to those user experience signals and it also begins to build that personal relationship between that motivated seller and the investor. 
00:31:16 JD 
00:31:17 JD 
So if somebody was looking to build a new online presence for a website and they're and they're talking to their local. 
00:31:27 JD 
Web developer, what's? What are a couple of the questions they should be asking to ensure that they're going to do a good job and that it's a good fit. 
00:31:38 JD 
I'm always worried that we're getting involved with companies that really don't know what we do as real estate investors. 
00:31:39 Ryan 
Great question. 
00:31:46 JD 
It, uh? 
00:31:47 Ryan 
Yeah, I mean. 
00:31:48 JD 
I've thrown up. 
00:31:48 JD 
00:31:49 JD 
A lot of money on myself deal doing that. 
00:31:53 Ryan 
The biggest factors that I'm typically looking for there and these may sound a little bit fuzzy and nontechnical, but I'm mostly looking again, I'm looking for that building a relationship of trust right? Especially in that first sort of 768 pixels on the page like. 
00:32:10 Ryan 
I want them to know who we are, what we do and why they should trust. 
00:32:14 Ryan 
00:32:15 Ryan 
Because you're there. If you're in a big market, you're there with dozens and dozens and dozens of other real estate investors. 
00:32:20 Ryan 
How are you going to stand out in a big way that you can stand out is by turning your face out there. 
00:32:26 Ryan 
Putting this human element to the pain that's driving somebody to this page and start building that relationship, and then the second component on a technical level is just look. 
00:32:36 Ryan 
Over 60% of search volume is happening on mobile. 
00:32:40 Ryan 
And so if you are talking to a web developer, I want to make sure that mobile. 
00:32:47 Ryan 
Is being treated more or less like your quote-unquote real website? 
00:32:51 Ryan 
Because the orientation for a long time was it look like on desktop right here. Here's the desktop looks awesome, but the reality is that the majority of your customers may never see your desktop website. 
00:33:02 Ryan 
And so there just needs to be a strong emphasis on making mobile, usable and attractive for these motivated sellers. 
00:33:10 JD 

00:33:12 JD 
So so based on what we're talking about here today. 
00:33:16 JD 
You know we're talking about having a search engine optimized website and the Google Adwords and some of these other campaigns. 
00:33:23 JD 
I'm sure we could probably spend an entire episode talking about Facebook and social media for that matter, like how? How do we get this all to work together and coordinate some sort of marketing campaign? 
00:33:39 Ryan 
Uhm, so it depends a little bit on. 
00:33:44 Ryan 
It depends a little bit on the individual investor. A lot of the reason why we'll typically go down and see, oh Road to start out is is if, for example, if you're a real estate investor in a major metro, it's entirely. 
00:33:56 Ryan 
And then you're just starting out. It's entirely possible that you don't really have the budget to keep the lights on for as long as you need to. 
00:34:03 Ryan 
Big day to get enough clicks to start getting those sellers. So we do, at least in our agency we do have price points for SEO campaigns that will allow us to focus on organic search and Google My Business and to start building some presence. 
00:34:18 Ryan 
Your mileage again will vary by the market. If you do have a lot of competition in your market, SCO can be. 
00:34:24 Ryan 
A long play, it's a worthwhile play, but it can be a longer play than it is in areas where you have less competition. 
00:34:30 Ryan 
00:34:31 Ryan 
Uhm, but when we get a Google when we get an SCO campaign together, first of all, we improve the website as much as we can, both in terms of its conversion rate optimization and in terms of its search engine optimization and what that allows us to do is to have a very well prepared website for when that AdWords campaign gets started. 
00:34:52 Ryan 
The third component here, and the one that we really haven't gone over. I know you mentioned social, but the one that I tend to focus on the most is actually Google My Business itself because some of the data that we get about that suggest that about. 
00:35:07 Ryan 
46% of those people who are seeing local search results are making decisions based upon what they see in the map pack, which are those in the map and the three search results that appear in local searches. 
00:35:19 Ryan 
So a big part of what we focus on is on trying to help them show up in the map pack for their target market. And unfortunately, Google My Business is pretty counter intuitive. 
00:35:34 Ryan 
When it comes to how you might actually go about doing that, and so we try to help investors position themselves for success in Google My Business as well as with their website itself. 
00:35:45 JD 
No, you just sprung, uh, a small idea that I've had for a while is that it? It seems like at least in my market, it seems like when I'm doing a Google search for, you know, sell house fast or whatever you're getting, I'm getting a ton of national like big chains. 
00:35:51 Ryan 
00:36:06 JD 
That are popping up in the search and I'm wondering if I need to provide more and more of an emphasis that I'm a local guy. 
00:36:17 Ryan 
Uhm, I think that's part of it. I think a big part of it is trying to cast the net as wide as you can geographically on your website. 
00:36:26 Ryan 
In other words, you know, let's we'll go back to Houston, since that was an example used earlier, right? You may think of Houston proper as the crown jewel. 
00:36:37 Ryan 
But the truth is that there's a whole constellation of cities and areas that you'd probably be more than happy to buy in a way that you could build content out for on your website. For example, that could be one way that you could go about it in. 
00:36:50 Ryan 
In terms of Google My Business itself. 
00:36:53 Ryan 
00:36:55 Ryan 
The big challenge that we have, and this is true, despite the rollout of, Uhm, Google My Business service areas is that Google tends to preferentially display people who are literally within the city that was searched for. 
00:37:11 Ryan 
And this is a real challenge if you know to take our market locally as an example. 
00:37:16 Ryan 
Like if you're in Dallas and you're a real estate investor, there is a good chance that you might be willing to drive to Plano to buy a home. 
00:37:26 Ryan 
But the reality is the way the Google My Business just treats you like you're a subway location, right? Like everyone is motivated to use the real estate investor who is geographically closest to them. That would be the best. 
00:37:37 Ryan 
Real estate investor for them, and that's not the case and so. 
00:37:44 Ryan 
Part of what I encourage people to do when it's possible is if you can set up other legitimate locations you know. 
00:37:50 Ryan 
I know it's a little bit different in this line of work, but if you can't set up other legitimate locations and areas that you care about, claiming a Google My Business profile for those can be a powerful way to get some presence in those cities. But far and away the biggest problems. 
00:38:04 Ryan 
But I've noticed this, especially in the past six months, come the biggest problems that we've begun to have in the REI space in Google My Business have been saturation and then web spam, and I think that. 
00:38:16 Ryan 
Almost everyone in every market can relate to the fact that there is a. We buy houses something springing up every single night. 
00:38:23 Ryan 
It seems like in your market and it's a challenge. It's almost like digitized bandit signs that are starting to show up in Google My Business and it. 
00:38:32 Ryan 
And it's a challenge and we have. We have ways that we can try to help you overcome that. 
00:38:36 Ryan 
Through reputation through review generation through Google My Business posts. 
00:38:40 Ryan 
00:38:40 Ryan 
Uhm, but Google My Business is still I would say it's one of the big three in terms of channels. 
00:38:47 Ryan 
So many people are responding to what's going on in maps and to the reputational signals that they get inside of maps. And so we have to pay serious attention to that, especially in the context of an SCO campaign. 
00:39:00 JD 
Well, that is a big tip in. In fact, I don't think a lot of people are likely aware of how important the Google My Business. 
00:39:11 JD 
Aspect actually is. 
00:39:14 Ryan 
It's. It's crucial. Google is a little bit stingy with some of the performance metrics, but there is a good percentage of. 
00:39:24 Ryan 
Phone calls. 
00:39:24 Ryan 
Phone calls that come directly out of Google My Business itself without ever reaching your website, so. 
00:39:31 Ryan 
Of all the publishers, I mean there's a lot of citations that you could do, and obviously, I mean, I'm future thinking I would love for you to pop up on Alexa or Siri or these voice search platforms, but the reality is, is that at this moment in time Google My Business is still. 
00:39:48 Ryan 
Uh, make my opinion. The biggest publisher that there is. I'm in terms of people that you want to be listed with. 
00:39:57 JD 
So well, I see that I've definitely consumed far more time than I think I. I promised you guys I otherwise I can keep going. 
00:40:08 JD 
Or we before? 
00:40:09 JD 
We call it good here today though. Is there anything? Is there a question you wished I would have asked you? 
00:40:19 Ryan 
That's a great question. 
00:40:21 Ryan 
Todd, can you think of anything? 
00:40:23 Todd 
Well, I was thinking that's a good question too, uhm? 
00:40:27 Todd 
No, I don't, uh, I can't the. 
00:40:31 Todd 
I always tell people that we start talking about marketing. It's like a. 
00:40:35 Todd 
Spider web that never ends right. Image that jetty. We could. People that smell all the time. How long do we need to? 
00:40:42 Todd 
To have an introductory call and I always say it depends on how many questions you're going to ask, 'cause we could literally talk all day about digital marketing, but I cannot think of anything I wish you'd ask me. 
00:40:53 JD 
OK well, I appreciate your time. This is this has been a really I appreciate all of the insight and information you gave to me in the crew. 
00:40:53 Todd 
I really can't. 
00:41:05 JD 
Definitely take him up on this. Analyze your current site with free website audit. I mean what like Todd had mentioned, why wouldn't you take somebody up on something like that? 
00:41:16 JD 
Head over to I hope we can do this again sometime. I think we could really do a deep dive, especially around social media. 
00:41:26 Todd 
Yeah, we'd love to. So, uh, we're happy to help out and, uh. 
00:41:31 Todd 
It's a lot of with investors about how we want to really engage with that site is just helping investors and give up free information. 
00:41:37 Todd 
And like I said, you mentioned, they're happy to AdWords out it, we're happy to website on it, which should also tell SCO so worst-case scenario, you're going to have some idea of what's hurting your campaigns. 
00:41:50 Todd 
If you take us up on that on that offer. 
00:41:52 Todd 
So we'd love to. 
00:41:55 Todd 
To visit with many Realty investors as we can and help as many as we can too. 
00:41:59 JD 
Well, I appreciate it. Again it's Thanks, guys, thank you. 
00:42:04 Ryan 
Thank you, thanks so much. 
00:42:04 Ryan 
Thanks so much.